JOE QUEER
You've been playing music and writing songs for a long time - but how did it all begin? Prior to The Queers were you writing your own songs? At what point did you realize that being a music fan wasn't enough - that you wanted to go for it yourself?
I played trumpet in the school band for years so that started me out. I was pretty good at it but realized I was only going so far with it in high school-I couldn't play the staccato notes very well-so I picked up guitar. Learned a few chords and just kept at it. I met a pal Don who as a good bass player and he taught me a lot-we'd play along with records and learn parts and slowly I tried writing songs. They all sucked. One of the earliest ones was called Plasticene People-not sure what that was about honestly-I smoked a lot of weed in those days. Still I'd mess around with little bits and parts and some of them weren't too bad.
Once I met Wimpy through other pot smoking pal 'musicians' I joined a horrible cover band he was in called Sky High. I knew it sucked but had never played in a band so I did it. The other guys were actually good players and I could fake it a bit but I wanted the experience. Once I joined we did David Bowie and Rolling Stones songs. They were just doing crap like Santana and Doobie Brothers-pretty lame shit. I showed up with a Fender Bandmaster Reverb and a Little Muff fuzz box (couldn't find the dough for a Big Muff as pot and beer had to be bought) and rocked it on out. We only played a handful of shows before me and Wimpy quit and started our own bands. One was called the Falling Spikes. We were pretty good. I'd gotten some huge nail/spike things like you use for gutter repair but heavier. Not even sure what the hell they are used for. Anyway Don the bass player worked at a machine shop or his Dad did and we got him to drill holes in the nails and put them on chains and wore them around our necks. Damn things were about 10" long. We'd jump around and the nails would poke us in the eyes and bang us up pretty good on our faces. We looked like idiots. If anyone laughed we'd call them fags and go smoke more pot and talk about how dumb everyone was.
Anyway I wrote a couple songs that weren't too bad. Bored in the USA was our 'hit'. It was sort of an answer song to the Clash Bored With the USA apparently. The sands of time have erased the thought process and some of the lyrics but I remember we thought it was pretty hot stuff:
Don't Know What I Want Do You?-back vox came in on the Do You/You Do parts.
Don't Believe In the Screen You Do!!
Never Knew The Sky Was Blue!!
Bored In the U!! S!! A!!!! 2x
We got to the 3rd verse and hit the wall though.
All The Blokes Make Fun Of You!!!
Say Hey Boy This What You Do!! (perhaps the lyric I'm most proud of in my long 'career')
All The Traffic Lights Turned Blue!!
Bored in the U!! S!! A!!!
Had a little guitar lead in there and everything. Wish I had a recording of it. Wimpy had it on cassette but recorded over it. So yeah we started out there. Slowly I worked on songs. I'd sent Joey Ramone a cassette of 4 songs we recorded that ended up on the Grow Up album and met him a few weeks later at a show. I will never forget saying hey Joey I'm Joe from The Queers and him immediately saying he loved Goodbye California and Love Love Love!! It was pretty cool. I knew he'd listened to the songs cos I just said I was from The Queers and he knew the song titles and everything!! After that I always wanted to play music.
How did you learn to play guitar? Did you learn to write songs with open chords? How has your style of guitar playing developed over the years, and when did you begin learning those rock n' roll leads? Did you notice a shift in your songwriting abilities as you became a better guitarist?
I took a lesson or two from Dick Ray the chorus teacher in high school and bought a cheap acoustic guitar and off I went. Having played trumpet and reading music I had a pretty good grasp of how to learn to play. Someone gave me a book on guitar playing for lead guitar and I learned most of the structures to play lead around. I really was lazy and didn't want to play like Jeff Beck or a guitar hero. I talked to Johnny Ramone once about guitar and he said it was too hard to learn how to play like those guys and he just played chords. I cottoned on that theory quickly and stuck mainly with rhythm though I can fake a lead. I'm not some jam out guy. I could be but have no interest in learning really.
Your songwriting could be described as deceptively simple, in that the structures and melodies are very straightforward but you compose very skillfully - the hooks, cadences, and parts all have a natural flow and there are nuances hidden throughout. Is this something that has always come easily for you?
Thanks to the trumpet/band days I have a good idea of harmonies and song structure. I played in the jazz band doing shit like Duke Ellington and Glenn Miller. Tuxedo Junction. String of Pearls. It was actually fun as hell to be part of a big band. That really helped me. Even today I don't listen to a lot of punk stuff.I'll listen to songs from the angle of how it's written and put together. Like I was listening to really old shit lately-Billy Murray I Wonder Who's Kissing Her now. Gene Austin She's Funny That Way. Oceana Roll by Eddie Morton-really old old stuff but well written. Also that band CSS from Brazil. Only heard of them cos a pal of mine screwed the lead singer-or so he says-so I listened to a song or two. Not sure they still play but they had a gay guy in the band Adriano who was older than the rest-he wrote killer poppy disco punky dance songs for them. Move. I Couldn't Care Less. Off The Hook. Hits Me Like a Rock. Go to about 2:30 in Hits Me Like A Rock-I love how they did that change. I never would have thought of that!! Left Behind is another great tune they do. All sorts of catchy songs-well written but different than what I like really. ELO-The Way Life's Meant To Be. The ELO stuff is really well produced and written. Love to listen to that and think of what changes I would have come up with for various songs.
Did Hugh's drumming play a significant role in the development of the band's sound in the early 90s? It wasn't the "skate punk" beat that the Epitaph and Fat bands made famous, and was also distinct from fellow bands like Screeching Weasel. Was that tempo and beat something that you had a role in creating as part of the new Queers sound? It's still a signature feature today!
We loved the Ramones not all that crappy English Oi crap. Plus bubblegum stuff from the 60's. Hugh grew up playing to the Rolling Stones-he's a lot like Charlie Watts-straightforward and played what the song calls for. The worst thing about the Fat/Epitaph bands is the drumming. They all suck pretty much. Of course most of those guys don't go back any further than Tre Cool on drums. We grew up when you had to play your instruments and recorded to tape. The pro tools generation has allowed a lot of phonies get into music. I'm older so I grew up listening to great 60's music. Every song on the radio was great back then!! On AM radio!! I'd listen to my radio on my paper route all the time and then under the covers at night haha!! Those were my influences and Hugh was the same. Well written little 2 minute pop songs.
Do you recall when you began writing songs with a more Brian Wilson flavor? Did you study his songs in order to adapt that style into your own? It seems like you have a knack for taking ingredients from those 60's rock songs and creating your own songwriting recipe that still sounds like The Queers.
I just liked the Beach Boys. I never studied them. Listened to a lot o the Today album. That's their best-not Pet Sounds. I wrote that song off Munki Brain I Think She's Starting To Like Me with the thought process of a song that would work on Pet Sounds. I envisioned the song title on the back cover first. I thought yeah I could totally see that on the album. Then I kind of came up with the song one night cruising in from fishing when I worked commercial fishing. It would take about 12 hours to steam in-we only went 9mph on those boats. So you'd have to stay up late at night taking a watch on the way in. I came up with the music one night somehow-just hit me-and we finished it in the studio with Lisa Marr and my pal Mike from the Last Chucks. They kind of pushed me to finish it. I really think if the Beach Boys had done it it would be a hit-or at least a well known song of theirs. That came out really good as did the Brian Wilson song Lisa and I wrote. Great songs!!
In the late 90s, the songwriting seemed to be going in a more aggressive yet humor-driven direction. What were some of the sources of inspiration for what became the sound and style of the Beyond the Valley... album? That one still stands out as being uniquely catchy even though many of the songs were more aggressive. And the lyrics - hilarious!
Oh at that point I realized Hopeless Records wasn't going to pay us-they were ripping us off badly-still are. So I owed them an album and deliberatly wrote some crappy stuff. Kind of a throwaway album though it has it's fans. Few songs are ok. I used the word cunt in 2 song titles just to be a jerk. I wasn't about to give them another good album at that point. That's what happened there.
Your catalog of songs is so expansive now that you could easily just continue touring indefinitely on all of the previous material you've recorded. Does this fact impact your motivation to write new songs? Do you still feel the same level of inspiration to create new songs, and do you still get that "songwriting high" when a good one appears?
We have so many songs we have to concentrate to add a few new ones each tour. New as in ones we haven't played lately. We could easily do 2 or 3 different sets without doing 2 songs twice and they'd be damn good sets too! We'll be in the van driving and I'll say hey we haven't done Definitely or Voodoo Doll or I Never Got The Girl lately-let's add them. We all say yes and then promptly forget ha! I'd do nothing but pop songs if we could. We've added a guitar player lately though and I just sing-it frees me up to do more songs as they are all good players and I can't sing and play some of the songs. We're doing It's Cold Outside this tour. I can't play and sing that properly. Psychedelic Mindfuck off Back to the Basement we wanna start doing-great song.
How difficult is it to tour as much as you do with a sort of rotating cast of characters as your band? You've definitely got mainstays and there've been consistent members throughout the different eras, but it seems like a huge challenge to invite so many different personalities and playing abilities into the fold. What has that been like? How do you see your role now compared to when it was just you, Hugh, and B-Face (and sometimes Wimpy)?
Oh I like it. Different people bring different stuff. Our lineup now is the best it's been I think. I realized after Dave and Lurch bailed they were holding us back-they didn't have the spark and drive and weren't into it really. So it was getting stale. With the new guys I can be a band leader and we have really gotten better. Worked on a more solid set and playing different songs. Me B-face and Hugh had our moments but we sucked compared to our lineup now. It wasn't that we were bad players but drinking and drugs and arguing took it's toll. We never played up to our potential. People often say that was the greatest lineup but musically it's not even close to where we are now. Of course I've played for years and then we were knew so it's natural we'd be better. Simply gear-wise we know so much more now.We never seemed to gel.It was democratic and those guys resented me being the leader though I really had to be. So the more successful we got the worst we played. Chris Fields came on guitar and vox for the last tour I did with Hugh and Bface. Me and Chris were talking about that recently-it was really hit or miss. We'd try but just didn't gel. Once I became the leader and could call the shots without getting lip from someone cos they wanted to do something else-and usually it was little shit-it became easier. Epitaph flew me and Hugh out to LA to meet cos they wanted to sign us. 3 album deal we shook hands on in 1997. Right after Don't Back Down. We flew home and then started a huge argument that really ended that lineup. Those 2 wanted to stay on Lookout and I told them they were nuts!! Can you imagine? I was the only guy in a punk band in 1997 that had 2 members wanting to turn down a 3 album deal from Epitaph!! They called me an idiot-said I was delusional-we should never leave Lookout etc. But I knew we'd hit as high as we were going to on Lookout and we needed to move. Again it wasn't their fault-they didn't deal with the label as much as I did. Molly had called both Hugh and Bface and talked them into staying and told them all sorts of frightful lies-so they thought they knew more than I did but they sadly didn't. We should have been the 3 happiest guys in the world at the time but all we did was fight. They'd just go against anything I suggested. Didn't matter what it was. I'd written Don't Back Down-produced it basically myself though Mass got credit-I really quarterbacked that whole thing-and all I heard was we were stupid to do the 'Beach Boys' stuff. We had to go back to Beat Off and the 'punkier' stuff. We were turning into 'fags' etc. So I had no support after Don't Back Down. I realized that I had to get new guys or stop the band and I wasn't stopping the band. Matter of fact Hugh called me after he knew he was dying and had stopped treatment for his brain tumor and told me to keep going so I did. I was excited after Don't Back Down to see what else we could come up with. I wasn't stopping. We got new guys and got better immediately. It was great!!
You've been very supportive of other songwriters and bands throughout the years, and have in your own way served as kind of a father figure in this pop punk scene. Do you feel a responsibility as someone who's widely looked upon as a key contributor to the pop punk genre, and also someone who has consistently been "on the level" as far as connecting with fans and playing the "working class circuit" for much of your career?
Oh I realize we were really lucky to have met Ben Weasel and gotten on Lookout. I could easily have been flipping burgers at Joe's Place my restaurant I owned if not for those guys. I try to help bands if I can. That's why I have a studio. I know how hard it is to record if you don't have dough so I help with deals in the studio with bands. It's all word of mouth but I love producing and engineering. I don't mix-I just do the other stuff and hand it off so we can concentrate on tracking and the creative process. Met a ton of great guys. I'm in the middle of a session with a great unknown band from around Atlanta called Breaux. They have a killer album in them but never recorded much. So I just started with them. Not pop punk per se but it's great stuff. Very well written and they're great musicians so I'm hoping that will see the light of day once it's finished. With the internet these days I get a lot of crap written about me but it's all people who have never met me. They hear something negative and run with that. It's insane. You read this shit written about you and think who are they talking about?!? Oh me!! Wow. Like I say it's people that have never met me.
How has your family responded to your career throughout its different stages? Is it something that they've supported and acknowledged as a significant contribution? Do you feel that you occupy different worlds - being a somewhat legendary figure in punk rock but just another "Joe" in Atlanta?
Oh they don't care that much. I guess they're proud or happy for me but they don't dwell on it. I'm just another nut in the family. I like being in Atlanta as opposed to Portsmouth NH. When a horn beeps I don't turn around down here. In NH I know everyone that walks down the street it seems. I like the anonymity here. Only a few times will I see someone here and there that knows me. Slowly I'm meeting more and more musicians here. I've lived here 14 years and still only know a handful of people. It's been fun meeting more bands though.
In your experience working with and befriending other songwriters like Dr. Frank, Kim Shattuck, Lisa Marr, Ben Weasel, and other very talented individuals - have you found opportunities to learn from their different approaches and styles? Do you feel like your songwriting has benefitted from associating with so many other great songwriters over the years?
I've benefitted from having them as contemporaries as far as having to do music that keeps up with their vast talents. We weren't trying to run with The Lillingtons and Teenage Bottlerocket (great bands I like but not in the league of the others in my opinion which is no knock on them)-we had Green Day and Weasel and the Muffs and MTX etc. The Smugglers. Hi Fives. All killer bands that wrote killer songs. If we were running with and in that crowd you had to step up. After Beat Off and Move Back Home being so lame I knew we had to do a killer album so we did Don't Back Down. I was really psyched that Lisa Marr helped on that. JJ Rassler came up and helped. It was great!! Really creative time.
Hey one person you should hit up is CJ Ramone. Not sure you've heard his solo stuff but it's amazing. You can totally tell the Ramones would have recorded a few of his songs-or more than a few. Really really good. It's funny but my guitar amp tech guy has a studio and out of the blue mentioned how good CJ's stuff is and I couldn't agree more. I actually want to record one of his songs from I think his 2nd solo album. Just great inventive stuff and really catchy. CJ is a great bassist but the surprising thing is he is such a great songwriter. I never expected it. Richie Ramone is another great songwriter. I know a lot of people like or dislike his voice but he can really write great songs too. That song Cellophane off his last album would be a great song for someone like Lita Ford to record. Not typical pop punk but it kind of shows where he would have gone with his songwriting. Richie is a great musician and I believe classically trained. I know he's done some orchestral stuff.
An important question for me personally - is there ANY heavy metal that you consider worthwhile? I know you might not be a huge Grim Reaper fan like me, but do you see any commonalities or parallels between the heavy metal world and yours? Is there anything musically inspiring to you about metal? (You had to know this question was coming!)
Not really. I don't care for any of it really. Deep Purple is the closest to metal I like. I think the metal shit is funny at times though. I like that but I'm not into Quiet Riot and Judas Priest etc. I see why people like them but I was into punk and never looked back by the time a lot of these bands hit. I was talking to Joey Ramone once about bands that influenced him-he wasn't that much older than me-and he had the same influences-Bowie-Mott the Hoople-Trex-Stooges-Lou Reed/Velvet Underground/NY Dolls. So the metal shit kind of pales in comparison to that stuff and I never really liked it. Kiss and all that shit. I know people love them but I don't. Gene Simmons is obnoxious. Talk about a cretin.
What does the future hold for you and your music career? Every time you come through San Francisco (several times a year it seems), there seems to be no slowing you down! Where does this vitality come from? Do you still enjoy the road life, the process of producing albums, the business end of making it all work as much as ever?
Oh I like touring. A lot of bands don't. MTX. Weasel. Smugglers are gone apparently. Bottlerocket still tours a lot which is great. Ray and I were talking last month about doing another tour together so hopefully that will happen soon. That would be a blast. So sad when Brandon passed and I know how tough it is on Ray but I'm psyched they're still playing. We're slowly working on a new album-I'm getting songs together now-so we will record. We have a busy schedule but I love touring and playing. I mean you do a job that people cheer and clap and beg for more. That never happened when I was cooking at Joe's Place. Touring is like being back in 6th grade and camping out with your friends in the backyard. But Mom and Dad are gone so we have the run of the place. Non stop laughs. Shit it's better than sitting on my ass at home. I know some people sneer down their noses at it. 'You're still touring?!? In a VAN?! How can you stand it!!!' etc etc. Hey I owned a restaurant and worked for years commercial fishing offshore year round in New England. Touring is like a day at the Playboy Mansion compared to that.
How did you learn to play guitar? Did you learn to write songs with open chords? How has your style of guitar playing developed over the years, and when did you begin learning those rock n' roll leads? Did you notice a shift in your songwriting abilities as you became a better guitarist?
I took a lesson or two from Dick Ray the chorus teacher in high school and bought a cheap acoustic guitar and off I went. Having played trumpet and reading music I had a pretty good grasp of how to learn to play. Someone gave me a book on guitar playing for lead guitar and I learned most of the structures to play lead around. I really was lazy and didn't want to play like Jeff Beck or a guitar hero. I talked to Johnny Ramone once about guitar and he said it was too hard to learn how to play like those guys and he just played chords. I cottoned on that theory quickly and stuck mainly with rhythm though I can fake a lead. I'm not some jam out guy. I could be but have no interest in learning really.
As far as songwriting I got slowly better-coming up with songs now and then. One the Queers started Tulu kind of showed me a lot and inspired us to write more so me and Wimpy did. By the time we did the 2nd ep-Webelos/This Place Sucks etc-we were doing pretty good. After a while I realized Wimpy can only do the punk angry shit and I wanted to do more bubblegum stuff. I couldn't find a singer so I reluctantly started doing it. I was the only one who could stay on key so I did it. Started playing with guys in Boston-JJ Rassler from DMZ and he brought a garagey vibe to the band and I learned from him. Wrote a few great songs together. Strip Search. Voodoo Doll though that was actually me-he has a great lead guitar part on that song we never recorded-but I gave him credit. We did that on Beat Off and I never could get him to record that part so I came up with something.
Your songwriting could be described as deceptively simple, in that the structures and melodies are very straightforward but you compose very skillfully - the hooks, cadences, and parts all have a natural flow and there are nuances hidden throughout. Is this something that has always come easily for you?
Thanks to the trumpet/band days I have a good idea of harmonies and song structure. I played in the jazz band doing shit like Duke Ellington and Glenn Miller. Tuxedo Junction. String of Pearls. It was actually fun as hell to be part of a big band. That really helped me. Even today I don't listen to a lot of punk stuff.I'll listen to songs from the angle of how it's written and put together. Like I was listening to really old shit lately-Billy Murray I Wonder Who's Kissing Her now. Gene Austin She's Funny That Way. Oceana Roll by Eddie Morton-really old old stuff but well written. Also that band CSS from Brazil. Only heard of them cos a pal of mine screwed the lead singer-or so he says-so I listened to a song or two. Not sure they still play but they had a gay guy in the band Adriano who was older than the rest-he wrote killer poppy disco punky dance songs for them. Move. I Couldn't Care Less. Off The Hook. Hits Me Like a Rock. Go to about 2:30 in Hits Me Like A Rock-I love how they did that change. I never would have thought of that!! Left Behind is another great tune they do. All sorts of catchy songs-well written but different than what I like really. ELO-The Way Life's Meant To Be. The ELO stuff is really well produced and written. Love to listen to that and think of what changes I would have come up with for various songs.
Did Hugh's drumming play a significant role in the development of the band's sound in the early 90s? It wasn't the "skate punk" beat that the Epitaph and Fat bands made famous, and was also distinct from fellow bands like Screeching Weasel. Was that tempo and beat something that you had a role in creating as part of the new Queers sound? It's still a signature feature today!
We loved the Ramones not all that crappy English Oi crap. Plus bubblegum stuff from the 60's. Hugh grew up playing to the Rolling Stones-he's a lot like Charlie Watts-straightforward and played what the song calls for. The worst thing about the Fat/Epitaph bands is the drumming. They all suck pretty much. Of course most of those guys don't go back any further than Tre Cool on drums. We grew up when you had to play your instruments and recorded to tape. The pro tools generation has allowed a lot of phonies get into music. I'm older so I grew up listening to great 60's music. Every song on the radio was great back then!! On AM radio!! I'd listen to my radio on my paper route all the time and then under the covers at night haha!! Those were my influences and Hugh was the same. Well written little 2 minute pop songs.
Do you recall when you began writing songs with a more Brian Wilson flavor? Did you study his songs in order to adapt that style into your own? It seems like you have a knack for taking ingredients from those 60's rock songs and creating your own songwriting recipe that still sounds like The Queers.
I just liked the Beach Boys. I never studied them. Listened to a lot o the Today album. That's their best-not Pet Sounds. I wrote that song off Munki Brain I Think She's Starting To Like Me with the thought process of a song that would work on Pet Sounds. I envisioned the song title on the back cover first. I thought yeah I could totally see that on the album. Then I kind of came up with the song one night cruising in from fishing when I worked commercial fishing. It would take about 12 hours to steam in-we only went 9mph on those boats. So you'd have to stay up late at night taking a watch on the way in. I came up with the music one night somehow-just hit me-and we finished it in the studio with Lisa Marr and my pal Mike from the Last Chucks. They kind of pushed me to finish it. I really think if the Beach Boys had done it it would be a hit-or at least a well known song of theirs. That came out really good as did the Brian Wilson song Lisa and I wrote. Great songs!!
In the late 90s, the songwriting seemed to be going in a more aggressive yet humor-driven direction. What were some of the sources of inspiration for what became the sound and style of the Beyond the Valley... album? That one still stands out as being uniquely catchy even though many of the songs were more aggressive. And the lyrics - hilarious!
Oh at that point I realized Hopeless Records wasn't going to pay us-they were ripping us off badly-still are. So I owed them an album and deliberatly wrote some crappy stuff. Kind of a throwaway album though it has it's fans. Few songs are ok. I used the word cunt in 2 song titles just to be a jerk. I wasn't about to give them another good album at that point. That's what happened there.
Your catalog of songs is so expansive now that you could easily just continue touring indefinitely on all of the previous material you've recorded. Does this fact impact your motivation to write new songs? Do you still feel the same level of inspiration to create new songs, and do you still get that "songwriting high" when a good one appears?
We have so many songs we have to concentrate to add a few new ones each tour. New as in ones we haven't played lately. We could easily do 2 or 3 different sets without doing 2 songs twice and they'd be damn good sets too! We'll be in the van driving and I'll say hey we haven't done Definitely or Voodoo Doll or I Never Got The Girl lately-let's add them. We all say yes and then promptly forget ha! I'd do nothing but pop songs if we could. We've added a guitar player lately though and I just sing-it frees me up to do more songs as they are all good players and I can't sing and play some of the songs. We're doing It's Cold Outside this tour. I can't play and sing that properly. Psychedelic Mindfuck off Back to the Basement we wanna start doing-great song.
How difficult is it to tour as much as you do with a sort of rotating cast of characters as your band? You've definitely got mainstays and there've been consistent members throughout the different eras, but it seems like a huge challenge to invite so many different personalities and playing abilities into the fold. What has that been like? How do you see your role now compared to when it was just you, Hugh, and B-Face (and sometimes Wimpy)?
Oh I like it. Different people bring different stuff. Our lineup now is the best it's been I think. I realized after Dave and Lurch bailed they were holding us back-they didn't have the spark and drive and weren't into it really. So it was getting stale. With the new guys I can be a band leader and we have really gotten better. Worked on a more solid set and playing different songs. Me B-face and Hugh had our moments but we sucked compared to our lineup now. It wasn't that we were bad players but drinking and drugs and arguing took it's toll. We never played up to our potential. People often say that was the greatest lineup but musically it's not even close to where we are now. Of course I've played for years and then we were knew so it's natural we'd be better. Simply gear-wise we know so much more now.We never seemed to gel.It was democratic and those guys resented me being the leader though I really had to be. So the more successful we got the worst we played. Chris Fields came on guitar and vox for the last tour I did with Hugh and Bface. Me and Chris were talking about that recently-it was really hit or miss. We'd try but just didn't gel. Once I became the leader and could call the shots without getting lip from someone cos they wanted to do something else-and usually it was little shit-it became easier. Epitaph flew me and Hugh out to LA to meet cos they wanted to sign us. 3 album deal we shook hands on in 1997. Right after Don't Back Down. We flew home and then started a huge argument that really ended that lineup. Those 2 wanted to stay on Lookout and I told them they were nuts!! Can you imagine? I was the only guy in a punk band in 1997 that had 2 members wanting to turn down a 3 album deal from Epitaph!! They called me an idiot-said I was delusional-we should never leave Lookout etc. But I knew we'd hit as high as we were going to on Lookout and we needed to move. Again it wasn't their fault-they didn't deal with the label as much as I did. Molly had called both Hugh and Bface and talked them into staying and told them all sorts of frightful lies-so they thought they knew more than I did but they sadly didn't. We should have been the 3 happiest guys in the world at the time but all we did was fight. They'd just go against anything I suggested. Didn't matter what it was. I'd written Don't Back Down-produced it basically myself though Mass got credit-I really quarterbacked that whole thing-and all I heard was we were stupid to do the 'Beach Boys' stuff. We had to go back to Beat Off and the 'punkier' stuff. We were turning into 'fags' etc. So I had no support after Don't Back Down. I realized that I had to get new guys or stop the band and I wasn't stopping the band. Matter of fact Hugh called me after he knew he was dying and had stopped treatment for his brain tumor and told me to keep going so I did. I was excited after Don't Back Down to see what else we could come up with. I wasn't stopping. We got new guys and got better immediately. It was great!!
You've been very supportive of other songwriters and bands throughout the years, and have in your own way served as kind of a father figure in this pop punk scene. Do you feel a responsibility as someone who's widely looked upon as a key contributor to the pop punk genre, and also someone who has consistently been "on the level" as far as connecting with fans and playing the "working class circuit" for much of your career?
Oh I realize we were really lucky to have met Ben Weasel and gotten on Lookout. I could easily have been flipping burgers at Joe's Place my restaurant I owned if not for those guys. I try to help bands if I can. That's why I have a studio. I know how hard it is to record if you don't have dough so I help with deals in the studio with bands. It's all word of mouth but I love producing and engineering. I don't mix-I just do the other stuff and hand it off so we can concentrate on tracking and the creative process. Met a ton of great guys. I'm in the middle of a session with a great unknown band from around Atlanta called Breaux. They have a killer album in them but never recorded much. So I just started with them. Not pop punk per se but it's great stuff. Very well written and they're great musicians so I'm hoping that will see the light of day once it's finished. With the internet these days I get a lot of crap written about me but it's all people who have never met me. They hear something negative and run with that. It's insane. You read this shit written about you and think who are they talking about?!? Oh me!! Wow. Like I say it's people that have never met me.
How has your family responded to your career throughout its different stages? Is it something that they've supported and acknowledged as a significant contribution? Do you feel that you occupy different worlds - being a somewhat legendary figure in punk rock but just another "Joe" in Atlanta?
Oh they don't care that much. I guess they're proud or happy for me but they don't dwell on it. I'm just another nut in the family. I like being in Atlanta as opposed to Portsmouth NH. When a horn beeps I don't turn around down here. In NH I know everyone that walks down the street it seems. I like the anonymity here. Only a few times will I see someone here and there that knows me. Slowly I'm meeting more and more musicians here. I've lived here 14 years and still only know a handful of people. It's been fun meeting more bands though.
In your experience working with and befriending other songwriters like Dr. Frank, Kim Shattuck, Lisa Marr, Ben Weasel, and other very talented individuals - have you found opportunities to learn from their different approaches and styles? Do you feel like your songwriting has benefitted from associating with so many other great songwriters over the years?
I've benefitted from having them as contemporaries as far as having to do music that keeps up with their vast talents. We weren't trying to run with The Lillingtons and Teenage Bottlerocket (great bands I like but not in the league of the others in my opinion which is no knock on them)-we had Green Day and Weasel and the Muffs and MTX etc. The Smugglers. Hi Fives. All killer bands that wrote killer songs. If we were running with and in that crowd you had to step up. After Beat Off and Move Back Home being so lame I knew we had to do a killer album so we did Don't Back Down. I was really psyched that Lisa Marr helped on that. JJ Rassler came up and helped. It was great!! Really creative time.
Hey one person you should hit up is CJ Ramone. Not sure you've heard his solo stuff but it's amazing. You can totally tell the Ramones would have recorded a few of his songs-or more than a few. Really really good. It's funny but my guitar amp tech guy has a studio and out of the blue mentioned how good CJ's stuff is and I couldn't agree more. I actually want to record one of his songs from I think his 2nd solo album. Just great inventive stuff and really catchy. CJ is a great bassist but the surprising thing is he is such a great songwriter. I never expected it. Richie Ramone is another great songwriter. I know a lot of people like or dislike his voice but he can really write great songs too. That song Cellophane off his last album would be a great song for someone like Lita Ford to record. Not typical pop punk but it kind of shows where he would have gone with his songwriting. Richie is a great musician and I believe classically trained. I know he's done some orchestral stuff.
An important question for me personally - is there ANY heavy metal that you consider worthwhile? I know you might not be a huge Grim Reaper fan like me, but do you see any commonalities or parallels between the heavy metal world and yours? Is there anything musically inspiring to you about metal? (You had to know this question was coming!)
Not really. I don't care for any of it really. Deep Purple is the closest to metal I like. I think the metal shit is funny at times though. I like that but I'm not into Quiet Riot and Judas Priest etc. I see why people like them but I was into punk and never looked back by the time a lot of these bands hit. I was talking to Joey Ramone once about bands that influenced him-he wasn't that much older than me-and he had the same influences-Bowie-Mott the Hoople-Trex-Stooges-Lou Reed/Velvet Underground/NY Dolls. So the metal shit kind of pales in comparison to that stuff and I never really liked it. Kiss and all that shit. I know people love them but I don't. Gene Simmons is obnoxious. Talk about a cretin.
What does the future hold for you and your music career? Every time you come through San Francisco (several times a year it seems), there seems to be no slowing you down! Where does this vitality come from? Do you still enjoy the road life, the process of producing albums, the business end of making it all work as much as ever?
Oh I like touring. A lot of bands don't. MTX. Weasel. Smugglers are gone apparently. Bottlerocket still tours a lot which is great. Ray and I were talking last month about doing another tour together so hopefully that will happen soon. That would be a blast. So sad when Brandon passed and I know how tough it is on Ray but I'm psyched they're still playing. We're slowly working on a new album-I'm getting songs together now-so we will record. We have a busy schedule but I love touring and playing. I mean you do a job that people cheer and clap and beg for more. That never happened when I was cooking at Joe's Place. Touring is like being back in 6th grade and camping out with your friends in the backyard. But Mom and Dad are gone so we have the run of the place. Non stop laughs. Shit it's better than sitting on my ass at home. I know some people sneer down their noses at it. 'You're still touring?!? In a VAN?! How can you stand it!!!' etc etc. Hey I owned a restaurant and worked for years commercial fishing offshore year round in New England. Touring is like a day at the Playboy Mansion compared to that.
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