DAN VAPID
The first semblance of songwriting was through journal entries around 15 or 16 years of age. The journal was a way of channeling depression, anxiety, and the confusion that went along with having these symptoms. At some point with these journal entries a type of rhythm or meter unconsciously emerged. Then I started to consciously write lyrics with the verse chorus structure. This pattern continued for about two years and I wouldn’t dare show anybody what I wrote for the fear of embarrassment. The writing was absolutely terrible, but it did help develop skills for rhythm/rhyming and served as a much needed release for what I was experiencing. During this time period, I collaborated on a few joke punk songs with friends in a garage.
The first song I remember writing was called “Parental Control” which had a DRI/ Corrosion of Conformity influence. We thought the idea of the lyrics was funny even though my parents weren’t controlling at all; in fact, they were very much the opposite, but to a sixteen year old punk rock kid these facts hardly mattered. Despite these shenanigans, I got encouragement from friends to sing which led to my first “real” band called Generation Waste. In GW I was just the singer and didn’t get much encouragement for songwriting.
When GW folded I was trying out other projects that never could get off the ground. Then, Screeching Weasel asked if I would join them on bass. I started to show Ben song ideas and could see he was impressed. I became a collaborator for the band in those early years. The real encouragement for songwriting that had lasting effect was through Ben and John. That meant a lot and is probably most of the reason why I continued down the path of songwriting.
I've always been interested in the way you play guitar - it's a very honest and relatable style of strumming and your chord progressions also have a natural feel. How did you learn to play, and which came first for you - bass or guitar?
Bass came first-around the age of 15-to the aforementioned garage band. My older brother showed me a few guitar chords when I was 16, and I would play along to records. There were also various people along the way who taught me little licks, minor chords, etc. Playing guitar in Screeching Weasel likely shaped the way I strum the guitar the most.
Were the pop elements of your songwriting instinctual from the beginning? How did you come to understand the formulas for writing hooks and choruses? How did you develop your knowledge of song composition?
I’ve been an avid music fan since I was five years old, and although I would never admit it, I secretly loved pop hooks. When I was growing up I listened to hard rock and Metal which later opened the door to Hardcore and Punk. It may seem strange for a metal kid to secretly like pop hooks, but I did and wouldn’t tell anyone. Haha...When I discovered the Ramones and Naked Raygun, that changed everything for me. Those two bands captured the energy and attitude of punk with pop sensibilities. I also started to realize that what I wanted to achieve could be accomplished by playing three or four chords. But It wasn’t minimalism for the sake of minimalism that attracted me so much, it was about big guitars and punchy pop hooks with lots of style and attitude. It was about the song and effectively getting the job done.
I recall you sharing that you wrote "Crash of the Moons" while cooking dinner. Do you find that moments of inspiration often come when there's no instrument in your hand, and during everyday chores/activities? How do you catalog these ideas so you won't forget?
Yes, lots of my favorite songs were written while on a walk, driving, working, cooking dinner, lying in bed, playing a different instrument than a guitar, like a keyboard or piano, whatever. It’s usually when my mind is not thinking about songwriting that the best ideas come. I tend to jot down a lot on the notes section of my iPhone. There’s also a recording device I’ve hummed into many times. I’ve known many other musicians who’ve done the same.
Having worked with and alongside many other great songwriters, what were some lessons or habits that have helped you develop your own style? Also, who are some songwriters who you've admired then and now?
Years ago I used to watch Ben Weasel play chords and whistle a melody. That had an influence. Other than that, there was no secret formula or discovery. My tastes have changed somewhat over the years.
1987-1993: Ben, Joe, Kody, Dee Dee Ramone, Kim Shattuck, Jeff Pezzatti, John Haggerty, Milo Aukerman, Bill Stevenson, Rick Neilson, Buddy Holly, Little Richard, Elvis Costello, Blake Shwarzenbach, Bob Mould.
1995-2000: Beatles, Beach Boys, Johnny Cash, Hank Williams, Josh Caterer, Rhett Miller, Ennio Morricone (Spaghetti Western scores) Bill Conti ((Rocky, Bad Boys, Karate Kid scores).
2000-present: John Sampson, Ben Gibbard, Matt Skiba, Dan Adriano, Eric Carmen, Dolly Parton, Willie Nelson, Cliff Johnson, Björn Ulveras (ABBA).
These are some and shift often.
There's a certain timelessness to your songwriting that comes through in various ways - is this a characteristic that you strive for? Also, do you revisit your catalog often? How do you feel when listening to your own tunes?
I always hope to write music that I think could be enjoyable years later. Sometimes it can be achieved but often can not. I listen to a recording I just made over and over before letting it go. When it’s released with its artwork and into the world I forget about it and move on to the next thing. It’s very rare that I listen to an older record of mine. When I do, it’s usually to reference something.
When you reflect on the many projects and bands you've been part of, is there one in particular that you would direct people to for reference? Is there an album you've recorded so far that you feel best represents your songwriting personality?
I honestly don’t know. I’m a strange bird in the sense where I enjoy lots of rock n' roll but also enjoy a good amount of indie rock. The styles are in two different camps and rarely mingle so I usually feel musically Schitzo. If you like the former I would point to the Riverdales. If your a fan of the latter, I would point to Sludgeworth, Noise By Numbers.
Looking back at the Noise By Numbers album, do you feel that you accomplished all that you would like to writing in that style? It seemed to come very naturally.
No, I don’t think I’ve explored that side enough. If I ever continue in that direction I wouldn’t expect Riverdales fans to enjoy it much. Haha
Among your fans, I think there are many who would cite your Riverdales songs as favorites. Throughout that experience, how did your focus evolve when writing Riverdales songs? By the end it seemed as if you'd mastered the pop punk ballad as well as incorporating more melancholic melodies than on the self-titled and Storm the Streets.
I think it just came down to practice over a period of time. The repetition of writing is important while simultaneously not trying too hard, as I believe that overthinking can kill a song. It can be hard to know when to add to a song and when to subtract, or when to walk away and revisit later with fresh ears. These skills develop overtime for many musicians but are crucial. I also believe enthusiasm plays a huge role. If you’re with the right people and environment that energy can lend itself to creativity. If you’re having fun with the process it will likely show with the result.
All this said, the first Riverdales record didn’t capture what I had hoped. Riverdales fans seem to like that record but I’m more of a fan of what we did later.
The Dan Vapid and the Cheats albums so far have felt like a very natural and honest expression of your musical instincts. Was it a comfort to be able to steer that ship in any direction that felt right? Is having a namesake band significant in any other way to you?
It’s nice to be able to steer that ship in any direction, and there is some flexibility with this band in terms of making songs which differ from each other. That being said, I still don’t feel comfortable playing anything I come up with as I feel it would be jarring to the listener. As long as song ideas mesh on the same record they are welcome. Having a name sake band had no real significance. I’m just happy to write songs and play them to people who like them.
The All Wound Up albums have a vitality and spirit that suggest you having a great time while writing and recording those songs. What was different in terms of inspiration? Also, do you sense that your sons may someday take an interest in songwriting, too?
The difference with inspiration was the songs are either written through the eyes of my kids, or through my eyes towards my kids. That approach produced more than I could keep up with. A fair amount of decent songs were dropped that will never see the light of day.
Whether my kids take to music is hard to say. They get to hear a lot of music, but so far, their interest is with Star Wars and Legos, etc...time will tell.
One thing I've found admirable and relatable about your career is that you've reached a point where the focus must be on your family and responsibilities first, but your passion and productivity have not slowed as a result. Is it difficult to find that balance? In particular, is it challenging to create the kind of high-quality result you would ideally want given the high costs and lower expectations for financial return?
Yes! This is an excellent question. Parenthood has its rewards but comes with time constraints. The less you play live makes creating records a tougher sell for everybody. Luckily, I was able to get some good recordings with a lower budget and haven’t been in debt from anything. Financial returns from record sales are something I don’t think about much anymore. Those days are long gone.
You're looked upon by many (myself included) as a major contributor to the genre of pop punk, musically and aesthetically. Are you interested in any current bands who play that traditional style of Ramones-influenced punk, bearing in mind that you are likely a major influence? Who are some current songwriters you enjoy listening to?
I like the Lillingtons and Masked Intruder. Horror Section are pretty decent as well. My favorite songwriters span many genres.
Finally, what are some of your current projects in the works, and what musical goals remain for you as a songwriter and artist?
I’m working on the third Dan Vapid and the Cheats record. It’s been a battle for time but I’ve been chipping away at it. I’m hoping to have it out by fall.
*Follow-up questions:
As a songwriter, do you feel there's a link between creativity and depression? Have you found this to be a common experience among songwriters you've known? Does the recurring nature of anxiety and depression have an effect on your creative process? Do you feel that having low or negative feelings can actually benefit your songwriting?
I've always been interested in the way you play guitar - it's a very honest and relatable style of strumming and your chord progressions also have a natural feel. How did you learn to play, and which came first for you - bass or guitar?
Bass came first-around the age of 15-to the aforementioned garage band. My older brother showed me a few guitar chords when I was 16, and I would play along to records. There were also various people along the way who taught me little licks, minor chords, etc. Playing guitar in Screeching Weasel likely shaped the way I strum the guitar the most.
Were the pop elements of your songwriting instinctual from the beginning? How did you come to understand the formulas for writing hooks and choruses? How did you develop your knowledge of song composition?
I’ve been an avid music fan since I was five years old, and although I would never admit it, I secretly loved pop hooks. When I was growing up I listened to hard rock and Metal which later opened the door to Hardcore and Punk. It may seem strange for a metal kid to secretly like pop hooks, but I did and wouldn’t tell anyone. Haha...When I discovered the Ramones and Naked Raygun, that changed everything for me. Those two bands captured the energy and attitude of punk with pop sensibilities. I also started to realize that what I wanted to achieve could be accomplished by playing three or four chords. But It wasn’t minimalism for the sake of minimalism that attracted me so much, it was about big guitars and punchy pop hooks with lots of style and attitude. It was about the song and effectively getting the job done.
I recall you sharing that you wrote "Crash of the Moons" while cooking dinner. Do you find that moments of inspiration often come when there's no instrument in your hand, and during everyday chores/activities? How do you catalog these ideas so you won't forget?
Yes, lots of my favorite songs were written while on a walk, driving, working, cooking dinner, lying in bed, playing a different instrument than a guitar, like a keyboard or piano, whatever. It’s usually when my mind is not thinking about songwriting that the best ideas come. I tend to jot down a lot on the notes section of my iPhone. There’s also a recording device I’ve hummed into many times. I’ve known many other musicians who’ve done the same.
Having worked with and alongside many other great songwriters, what were some lessons or habits that have helped you develop your own style? Also, who are some songwriters who you've admired then and now?
Years ago I used to watch Ben Weasel play chords and whistle a melody. That had an influence. Other than that, there was no secret formula or discovery. My tastes have changed somewhat over the years.
1987-1993: Ben, Joe, Kody, Dee Dee Ramone, Kim Shattuck, Jeff Pezzatti, John Haggerty, Milo Aukerman, Bill Stevenson, Rick Neilson, Buddy Holly, Little Richard, Elvis Costello, Blake Shwarzenbach, Bob Mould.
1995-2000: Beatles, Beach Boys, Johnny Cash, Hank Williams, Josh Caterer, Rhett Miller, Ennio Morricone (Spaghetti Western scores) Bill Conti ((Rocky, Bad Boys, Karate Kid scores).
2000-present: John Sampson, Ben Gibbard, Matt Skiba, Dan Adriano, Eric Carmen, Dolly Parton, Willie Nelson, Cliff Johnson, Björn Ulveras (ABBA).
These are some and shift often.
There's a certain timelessness to your songwriting that comes through in various ways - is this a characteristic that you strive for? Also, do you revisit your catalog often? How do you feel when listening to your own tunes?
I always hope to write music that I think could be enjoyable years later. Sometimes it can be achieved but often can not. I listen to a recording I just made over and over before letting it go. When it’s released with its artwork and into the world I forget about it and move on to the next thing. It’s very rare that I listen to an older record of mine. When I do, it’s usually to reference something.
When you reflect on the many projects and bands you've been part of, is there one in particular that you would direct people to for reference? Is there an album you've recorded so far that you feel best represents your songwriting personality?
I honestly don’t know. I’m a strange bird in the sense where I enjoy lots of rock n' roll but also enjoy a good amount of indie rock. The styles are in two different camps and rarely mingle so I usually feel musically Schitzo. If you like the former I would point to the Riverdales. If your a fan of the latter, I would point to Sludgeworth, Noise By Numbers.
Looking back at the Noise By Numbers album, do you feel that you accomplished all that you would like to writing in that style? It seemed to come very naturally.
No, I don’t think I’ve explored that side enough. If I ever continue in that direction I wouldn’t expect Riverdales fans to enjoy it much. Haha
Among your fans, I think there are many who would cite your Riverdales songs as favorites. Throughout that experience, how did your focus evolve when writing Riverdales songs? By the end it seemed as if you'd mastered the pop punk ballad as well as incorporating more melancholic melodies than on the self-titled and Storm the Streets.
I think it just came down to practice over a period of time. The repetition of writing is important while simultaneously not trying too hard, as I believe that overthinking can kill a song. It can be hard to know when to add to a song and when to subtract, or when to walk away and revisit later with fresh ears. These skills develop overtime for many musicians but are crucial. I also believe enthusiasm plays a huge role. If you’re with the right people and environment that energy can lend itself to creativity. If you’re having fun with the process it will likely show with the result.
All this said, the first Riverdales record didn’t capture what I had hoped. Riverdales fans seem to like that record but I’m more of a fan of what we did later.
The Dan Vapid and the Cheats albums so far have felt like a very natural and honest expression of your musical instincts. Was it a comfort to be able to steer that ship in any direction that felt right? Is having a namesake band significant in any other way to you?
It’s nice to be able to steer that ship in any direction, and there is some flexibility with this band in terms of making songs which differ from each other. That being said, I still don’t feel comfortable playing anything I come up with as I feel it would be jarring to the listener. As long as song ideas mesh on the same record they are welcome. Having a name sake band had no real significance. I’m just happy to write songs and play them to people who like them.
The All Wound Up albums have a vitality and spirit that suggest you having a great time while writing and recording those songs. What was different in terms of inspiration? Also, do you sense that your sons may someday take an interest in songwriting, too?
The difference with inspiration was the songs are either written through the eyes of my kids, or through my eyes towards my kids. That approach produced more than I could keep up with. A fair amount of decent songs were dropped that will never see the light of day.
Whether my kids take to music is hard to say. They get to hear a lot of music, but so far, their interest is with Star Wars and Legos, etc...time will tell.
One thing I've found admirable and relatable about your career is that you've reached a point where the focus must be on your family and responsibilities first, but your passion and productivity have not slowed as a result. Is it difficult to find that balance? In particular, is it challenging to create the kind of high-quality result you would ideally want given the high costs and lower expectations for financial return?
Yes! This is an excellent question. Parenthood has its rewards but comes with time constraints. The less you play live makes creating records a tougher sell for everybody. Luckily, I was able to get some good recordings with a lower budget and haven’t been in debt from anything. Financial returns from record sales are something I don’t think about much anymore. Those days are long gone.
You're looked upon by many (myself included) as a major contributor to the genre of pop punk, musically and aesthetically. Are you interested in any current bands who play that traditional style of Ramones-influenced punk, bearing in mind that you are likely a major influence? Who are some current songwriters you enjoy listening to?
I like the Lillingtons and Masked Intruder. Horror Section are pretty decent as well. My favorite songwriters span many genres.
Finally, what are some of your current projects in the works, and what musical goals remain for you as a songwriter and artist?
I’m working on the third Dan Vapid and the Cheats record. It’s been a battle for time but I’ve been chipping away at it. I’m hoping to have it out by fall.
*Follow-up questions:
As a songwriter, do you feel there's a link between creativity and depression? Have you found this to be a common experience among songwriters you've known? Does the recurring nature of anxiety and depression have an effect on your creative process? Do you feel that having low or negative feelings can actually benefit your songwriting?
Yes, I believe there is a connection between depression and creative people of all types. If you do a quick search on the internet of writers, artists, musicians, afflicted with depression you’ll come across many household names like William Faulkner, Ernest Hemingway, Raymond Chandler, Vincent Van Gogh, Woody Allen, Kurt Kobain, Mark Twain, Robin Williams, etc..Even Abraham Lincoln was believed to have depression. These artists and innovative thinkers influenced countless people across the span of many generations while likely feeling awful inside. I know in my heart that many creative people secretly wish they could just be “normal” and not have to feel pulled down by the enormous weight of doom and gloom in their day to day lives. They are built differently and must make the best of their circumstance. No amount of fame, money or achievement can cure this. There’s nothing romantic about depression and anxiety. It sucks, plain and simple. Many times, people with this design of the brain feel like their walking on the margins of society; I know I often do, and sometimes being an observer on the lonesome fringes lends a different perspective most people would not see.
Do you see music as a source of spirituality at all? What are your thoughts on the elusive and abstract nature of capturing a compelling melody or lyric? Do you ever feel that you are "channeling" rather than creating when you write songs?
Great question. I consider myself agnostic but was raised in a catholic family. At the age of thirteen I saw a lot of hypocrisy with people of Christian faith and my mind constantly questioned gods existence. There is a conflict between head and heart on the matters of religion and the afterlife. My mind-and common sense-thought the afterlife and the existence of god made as much sense as the belief in Santa Clause. My heart, yearned for the story of Christ to be true. But I didn’t believe he parted the Red Sea, turned water into wine, restored sight to the blind. I’m a believer in the principles of what Christ taught but can’t get behind a magical super human, son of god, derived from the birth of a virgin. This creates an inner conflict and type of yearning. It’s possible that a spiritual void is soothed from songwriting but ultimately can not be fixed through these means.
To answer the later question, I do feel like songs are often “channeled” like there’s a radio antenna built within and the song is pulling me along instead of the opposite. It’s a very interesting experience. Like I said earlier, many songs are created while away from instruments or thoughts of music. I’ve seen both Ben Weasel and Joe King both make up songs while away from their guitars. I do the same, and I’m sure many musicians do as well.
Do you see a link between heavy metal and pop punk among those you've befriended throughout your career? Is it possible that the two styles address or satisfying similar needs in different ways? Who were/are your favorite metal bands?
There was definitely a link between metal and punk rock. Thrash metal was my introduction to punk and hardcore from bands like Metallica and Slayer, wearing punk shirts like misfits, discharge. I can remember thinking if Metallica likes this band called the Misfits I better check them out. In the mid- eighties, it was fairly common to see metal heads at punk and hardcore shows. Soon after, hardcore bands like DRI, Suicidal Tendencies, Corrosion of Conformity, began crossing over into metal.
Do you ever feel that your songwriting is constrained by your technical abilities as a player, or does it help somehow? What are your thoughts about giving other players the freedom to interpret your compositions as they see fit? Do you tend to encourage that when you collaborate with other musicians?
There are times when song ideas run against the constraints of technical abilities. When faced with these constraints, it can be frustrating. I start wishing that I could play or sing better. But it’s not worth it. The originality of anyone doing something creative comes from who they truly are. So, take bold steps and sing your song. I once heard Dave Grohl (yes, I have to quote Dave Grohl to make a point, sorry) talk about if Bob Dylan was unknown and on “the Voice” what would likely happen. He’d get booted off, right? I tend to think Bob Dylan wouldn’t even make it past an audition. So, if you have a voice like proverbial acne but can move me in a different way, then let the blemishes show. Music isn’t always about presenting this airbrushed perfection. Sometimes character comes with those blemishes.
As far as collaborating is concerned, I always ask my bandmates to hear their interpretations of my material first. I know what I’m thinking and they might have something better. If they do, I will use it. There’s no pride, it’s just about serving the song the best way possible.
As a music fan, do you find that you are "stuck" in any particular era of music, or are you prone to seeking out new music and styles? Do you find it challenging to balance your time between creating music that's yours while also indulging the "fan" in you by continuing to collect, listen to, research other bands? Are there any styles of music that you've discovered in more recent years that have made a significant impact on you - personally or creatively?
Some people have this idea that I’m a “Ramonescore” guy from playing in the Riverdales. Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely LOVE the Ramones, always will and hold them dear to my heart. But, I like lots of other music as well. For example, within the last week I’ve listened to: Death Cab For Cutie, Weakerthans, the Zombies, Rhett Miller, the Caesars, The Bee Gees, Metallica, Motley Crue, Ben Folds Five, Smoking popes, ELO.
I think some Riverdales fans might be surprised by this, but they shouldn’t. Genres don’t matter to me at all. Write and perform a great song and I will likely listen. As far as discovering new bands is concerned, i tend to think a great band will find me eventually whether I’m actively looking or not.
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