JOE QUEER

JOE QUEER

You've been playing music and writing songs for a long time - but how did it all begin? Prior to The Queers were you writing your own songs? At what point did you realize that being a music fan wasn't enough - that you wanted to go for it yourself?

I played trumpet in the school band for years so that started me out. I was pretty good at it but realized I was only going so far with it in high school-I couldn't play the staccato notes very well-so I picked up guitar. Learned a few chords and just kept at it. I met a pal Don who as a good bass player and he taught me a lot-we'd play along with records and learn parts and slowly I tried writing songs. They all sucked. One of the earliest ones was called Plasticene People-not sure what that was about honestly-I smoked a lot of weed in those days. Still I'd mess around with little bits and parts and some of them weren't too bad. 

Once I met Wimpy through other pot smoking pal 'musicians' I joined a horrible cover band he was in called Sky High. I knew it sucked but had never played in a band so I did it. The other guys were actually good players and I could fake it a bit but I wanted the experience. Once I joined we did David Bowie and Rolling Stones songs. They were just doing crap like Santana and Doobie Brothers-pretty lame shit. I showed up with a Fender Bandmaster Reverb and a Little Muff fuzz box (couldn't find the dough for a Big Muff as pot and beer had to be bought) and rocked it on out. We only played a handful of shows before me and Wimpy quit and started our own bands. One was called the Falling Spikes. We were pretty good. I'd gotten some huge nail/spike things like you use for gutter repair but heavier. Not even sure what the hell they are used for. Anyway Don the bass player worked at a machine shop or his Dad did and we got him to drill holes in the nails and put them on chains and wore them around our necks. Damn things were about 10" long. We'd jump around and the nails would poke us in the eyes and bang us up pretty good on our faces. We looked like idiots. If anyone laughed we'd call them fags and go smoke more pot and talk about how dumb everyone was. 

Anyway I wrote a couple songs that weren't too bad. Bored in the USA was our 'hit'. It was sort of an answer song to the Clash Bored With the USA apparently. The sands of time have erased the thought process and some of the lyrics but I remember we thought it was pretty hot stuff:

Don't Know What I Want Do You?-back vox came in on the Do You/You Do parts.

Don't Believe In the Screen You Do!!

Never Knew The Sky Was Blue!!

Bored In the U!! S!! A!!!! 2x

We got to the 3rd verse and hit the wall though. 

All The Blokes Make Fun Of You!!!

Say Hey Boy This What You Do!! (perhaps the lyric I'm most proud of in my long 'career')

All The Traffic Lights Turned Blue!!

Bored in the U!! S!! A!!! 

Had a little guitar lead in there and everything. Wish I had a recording of it. Wimpy had it on cassette but recorded over it. So yeah we started out there. Slowly I worked on songs. I'd sent Joey Ramone a cassette of 4 songs we recorded that ended up on the  Grow Up album and met him a few weeks later at a show. I will never forget saying hey Joey I'm Joe from The Queers and him immediately saying he loved Goodbye California and Love Love Love!! It was pretty cool. I knew he'd listened to the songs cos I just said I was from The Queers and he knew the song titles and everything!! After that I always wanted to play music. 

How did you learn to play guitar? Did you learn to write songs with open chords? How has your style of guitar playing developed over the years, and when did you begin learning those rock n' roll leads? Did you notice a shift in your songwriting abilities as you became a better guitarist? 

I took a lesson or two from Dick Ray the chorus teacher in high school and bought a cheap acoustic guitar and off I went. Having played trumpet and reading music I had a pretty good grasp of how to learn to play. Someone gave me a book on guitar playing for lead guitar and I learned most of the structures to play lead around. I really was lazy and didn't want to play like Jeff Beck or a guitar hero. I talked to Johnny Ramone once about guitar and he said it was too hard to learn how to play like those guys and he just played chords. I cottoned on that theory quickly and stuck mainly with rhythm though I can fake a lead. I'm not some jam out guy. I could be but have no interest in learning really. 

As far as songwriting I got slowly better-coming up with songs now and then. One the Queers started Tulu kind of showed me a lot and inspired us to write more so me and Wimpy did. By the time we did the 2nd ep-Webelos/This Place Sucks etc-we were doing pretty good. After a while I realized Wimpy can only do the punk angry shit and I wanted to do more bubblegum stuff. I couldn't find a singer so I reluctantly started doing it. I was the only one who could stay on key so I did it. Started playing with guys in Boston-JJ Rassler from DMZ and he brought a garagey vibe to the band and I learned from him. Wrote a few great songs together. Strip Search. Voodoo Doll though that was actually me-he has a great lead guitar part on that song we never recorded-but I gave him credit. We did that on Beat Off and I never could get him to record that part so I came up with something. 

Your songwriting could be described as deceptively simple, in that the structures and melodies are very straightforward but you compose very skillfully - the hooks, cadences, and parts all have a natural flow and there are nuances hidden throughout. Is this something that has always come easily for you?

Thanks to the trumpet/band days I have a good idea of harmonies and song structure. I played in the jazz band doing shit like Duke Ellington and Glenn Miller. Tuxedo Junction. String of Pearls. It was actually fun as hell to be part of a big band. That really helped me. Even today I don't listen to a lot of punk stuff.I'll listen to songs from the angle of how it's written and put together. Like I was listening to really old shit lately-Billy Murray I Wonder Who's Kissing Her now. Gene Austin She's Funny That Way. Oceana Roll by Eddie Morton-really old old stuff but well written. Also that band CSS from Brazil. Only heard of them cos a pal of mine screwed the lead singer-or so he says-so I listened to a song or two. Not sure they still play but they had a gay guy in the band Adriano who was older than the rest-he wrote killer poppy disco punky dance songs for them. Move. I Couldn't Care Less. Off The Hook. Hits Me Like a Rock. Go to about 2:30 in Hits Me Like A Rock-I love how they did that change. I never would have thought of that!!  Left Behind is another great tune they do. All sorts of catchy songs-well written but different than what I like really. ELO-The Way Life's Meant To Be. The ELO stuff is really well produced and written. Love to listen to that and think of what changes I would have come up with for various songs. 

Did Hugh's drumming play a significant role in the development of the band's sound in the early 90s? It wasn't the "skate punk" beat that the Epitaph and Fat bands made famous, and was also distinct from fellow bands like Screeching Weasel. Was that tempo and beat something that you had a role in creating as part of the new Queers sound? It's still a signature feature today!

We loved the Ramones not all that crappy English Oi crap. Plus bubblegum stuff from the 60's. Hugh grew up playing to the Rolling Stones-he's a lot like Charlie Watts-straightforward and played what the song calls for. The worst thing about the Fat/Epitaph bands is the drumming. They all suck pretty much. Of course most of those guys don't go back any further than Tre Cool on drums. We grew up when you had to play your instruments and recorded to tape. The pro tools generation has allowed a lot of phonies get into music. I'm older so I grew up listening to great 60's music. Every song on the radio was great back then!! On AM radio!! I'd listen to my radio on my paper route all the time and then under the covers at night haha!! Those were my influences and Hugh was the same. Well written little 2 minute pop songs. 

Do you recall when you began writing songs with a more Brian Wilson flavor? Did you study his songs in order to adapt that style into your own? It seems like you have a knack for taking ingredients from those 60's rock songs and creating your own songwriting recipe that still sounds like The Queers.

I just liked the Beach Boys. I never studied them. Listened to a lot o the Today album. That's their best-not Pet Sounds. I wrote that song off Munki Brain I Think She's Starting To Like Me with the thought process of a song that would work on Pet Sounds. I envisioned the song title on the back cover first. I thought yeah I could totally see that on the album. Then I kind of came up with the song one night cruising in from fishing when I worked commercial fishing. It would take about 12 hours to steam in-we only went 9mph on those boats. So you'd have to stay up late at night taking a watch on the way in. I came up with the music one night somehow-just hit me-and we finished it in the studio with Lisa Marr and my pal Mike from the Last Chucks. They kind of pushed me to finish it. I really think if the Beach Boys had done it it would be a hit-or at least a well known song of theirs. That came out really good as did the Brian Wilson song Lisa and I wrote. Great songs!!

In the late 90s, the songwriting seemed to be going in a more aggressive yet humor-driven direction. What were some of the sources of inspiration for what became the sound and style of the Beyond the Valley... album? That one still stands out as being uniquely catchy even though many of the songs were more aggressive. And the lyrics - hilarious!

Oh at that point I realized Hopeless Records wasn't going to pay us-they were ripping us off badly-still are. So I owed them an album and deliberatly wrote some crappy stuff. Kind of a throwaway album though it has it's fans. Few songs are ok. I used the word cunt in 2 song titles just to be a jerk. I wasn't about to give them another good album at that point. That's what happened there. 

Your catalog of songs is so expansive now that you could easily just continue touring indefinitely on all of the previous material you've recorded. Does this fact impact your motivation to write new songs? Do you still feel the same level of inspiration to create new songs, and do you still get that "songwriting high" when a good one appears?

We have so many songs we have to concentrate to add a few new ones each tour. New as in ones we haven't played lately. We could easily do 2 or 3 different sets without doing 2 songs twice and they'd be damn good sets too! We'll be in the van driving and I'll say hey we haven't done Definitely or Voodoo Doll or I Never Got The Girl lately-let's add them. We all say yes and then promptly forget ha! I'd do nothing but pop songs if we could. We've added a guitar player lately though and I just sing-it frees me up to do more songs as they are all good players and I can't sing and play some of the songs. We're doing It's Cold Outside this tour. I can't play and sing that properly. Psychedelic Mindfuck off Back to the Basement we wanna start doing-great song. 

How difficult is it to tour as much as you do with a sort of rotating cast of characters as your band? You've definitely got mainstays and there've been consistent members throughout the different eras, but it seems like a huge challenge to invite so many different personalities and playing abilities into the fold. What has that been like? How do you see your role now compared to when it was just you, Hugh, and B-Face (and sometimes Wimpy)?

Oh I like it. Different people bring different stuff. Our lineup now is the best it's been I think. I realized after Dave and Lurch bailed they were holding us back-they didn't have the spark and drive and weren't into it really. So it was getting stale. With the new guys I can be a band leader and we have really gotten better. Worked on a more solid set and playing different songs. Me B-face and Hugh had our moments but we sucked compared to our lineup now. It wasn't that we were bad players but drinking and drugs and arguing took it's toll. We never played up to our potential. People often say that was the greatest lineup but musically it's not even close to where we are now. Of course I've played for years and then we were knew so it's natural we'd be better. Simply gear-wise we know so much more now.We never seemed to gel.It was democratic and those guys resented me being the leader though I really had to be. So the more successful we got the worst we played. Chris Fields came on guitar and vox for the last tour I did with Hugh and Bface. Me and Chris were talking about that recently-it was really hit or miss. We'd try but just didn't gel. Once I became the leader and could call the shots without getting lip from someone cos they wanted to do something else-and usually it was little shit-it became easier. Epitaph flew me and Hugh out to LA to meet cos they wanted to sign us. 3 album deal we shook hands on in 1997. Right after Don't Back Down. We flew home and then started a huge argument that really ended that lineup. Those 2 wanted to stay on Lookout and I told them they were nuts!! Can you imagine? I was the only guy in a punk band in 1997 that had 2 members wanting to turn down a 3 album deal from Epitaph!! They called me an idiot-said I was delusional-we should never leave Lookout etc. But I knew we'd hit as high as we were going to on Lookout and we needed to move. Again it wasn't their fault-they didn't deal with the label as much as I did. Molly had called both Hugh and Bface and talked them into staying and told them all sorts of frightful lies-so they thought they knew more than I did but they sadly didn't. We should have been the 3 happiest guys in the world at the time but all we did was fight. They'd just go against anything I suggested. Didn't matter what it was. I'd written Don't Back Down-produced it basically myself though Mass got credit-I really quarterbacked that whole thing-and all I heard was we were stupid to do the 'Beach Boys' stuff. We had to go back to Beat Off and the 'punkier' stuff. We were turning into 'fags' etc. So I had no support after Don't Back Down. I realized that I had to get new guys or stop the band and I wasn't stopping the band. Matter of fact Hugh called me after he knew he was dying and had stopped treatment for his brain tumor and told me to keep going so I did. I was excited after Don't Back Down to see what else we could come up with. I wasn't stopping. We got new guys and got better immediately. It was great!!

You've been very supportive of other songwriters and bands throughout the years, and have in your own way served as kind of a father figure in this pop punk scene. Do you feel a responsibility as someone who's widely looked upon as a key contributor to the pop punk genre, and also someone who has consistently been "on the level" as far as connecting with fans and playing the "working class circuit" for much of your career?

Oh I realize we were really lucky to have met Ben Weasel and gotten on Lookout. I could easily have been flipping burgers at Joe's Place my restaurant I owned if not for those guys. I try to help bands if I can. That's why I have a studio. I know how hard it is to record if you don't have dough so I help with deals in the studio with bands. It's all word of mouth but I love producing and engineering. I don't mix-I just do the other stuff and hand it off so we can concentrate on tracking and the creative process. Met a ton of great guys. I'm in the middle of a session with a great unknown band from around Atlanta called Breaux. They have a killer album in them but never recorded much. So I just started with them. Not pop punk per se but it's great stuff. Very well written and they're great musicians so I'm hoping that will see the light of day once it's finished. With the internet these days I get a lot of crap written about me but it's all people who have never met me. They hear something negative and run with that. It's insane. You read this shit written about you and think who are they talking about?!? Oh me!! Wow. Like I say it's people that have never met me. 

How has your family responded to your career throughout its different stages? Is it something that they've supported and acknowledged as a significant contribution? Do you feel that you occupy different worlds - being a somewhat legendary figure in punk rock but just another "Joe" in Atlanta?

Oh they don't care that much. I guess they're proud or happy for me but they don't dwell on it. I'm just another nut in the family. I like being in Atlanta as opposed to Portsmouth NH. When a horn beeps I don't turn around down here. In NH I know everyone that walks down the street it seems. I like the anonymity here. Only a few times will I see someone here and there that knows me. Slowly I'm meeting more and more musicians here. I've lived here 14 years and still only know a handful of people. It's been fun meeting more bands though. 

In your experience working with and befriending other songwriters like Dr. Frank, Kim Shattuck, Lisa Marr, Ben Weasel, and other very talented individuals - have you found opportunities to learn from their different approaches and styles? Do you feel like your songwriting has benefitted from associating with so many other great songwriters over the years?

I've benefitted from having them as contemporaries as far as having to do music that keeps up with their vast talents. We weren't trying to run with The Lillingtons and Teenage Bottlerocket (great bands I like but not in the league of the others in my opinion which is no knock on them)-we had Green Day and Weasel and the Muffs and MTX etc. The Smugglers. Hi Fives. All killer bands that wrote killer songs. If we were running with and in that crowd you had to step up. After Beat Off and Move Back Home being so lame I knew we had to do a killer album so we did Don't Back Down. I was really psyched that Lisa Marr helped on that. JJ Rassler came up and helped. It was great!! Really creative time. 

Hey one person you should hit up is CJ Ramone. Not sure you've heard his solo stuff but it's amazing. You can totally tell the Ramones would have recorded a few of his songs-or more than a few. Really really good. It's funny but my guitar amp tech guy has a studio and out of the blue mentioned how good CJ's stuff is and I couldn't agree more. I actually want to record one of his songs from I think his 2nd solo album. Just great inventive stuff and really catchy. CJ is a great bassist but the surprising thing is he is such a great songwriter. I never expected it. Richie Ramone is another great songwriter. I know a lot of people like or dislike his voice but he can really write great songs too. That song Cellophane off his last album would be a great song for someone like Lita Ford to record. Not typical pop punk but it kind of shows where he would have gone with his songwriting. Richie is a great musician and I believe classically trained. I know he's done some orchestral stuff. 

An important question for me personally - is there ANY heavy metal that you consider worthwhile? I know you might not be a huge Grim Reaper fan like me, but do you see any commonalities or parallels between the heavy metal world and yours? Is there anything musically inspiring to you about metal? (You had to know this question was coming!)

Not really. I don't care for any of it really. Deep Purple is the closest to metal I like. I think the metal shit is funny at times though. I like that but I'm not into Quiet Riot and Judas Priest etc. I see why people like them but I was into punk and never looked back by the time a lot of these bands hit. I was talking to Joey Ramone once about bands that influenced him-he wasn't that much older than me-and he had the same influences-Bowie-Mott the Hoople-Trex-Stooges-Lou Reed/Velvet Underground/NY Dolls. So the metal shit kind of pales in comparison to that stuff and I never really liked it. Kiss and all that shit. I know people love them but I don't. Gene Simmons is obnoxious. Talk about a cretin. 

What does the future hold for you and your music career? Every time you come through San Francisco (several times a year it seems), there seems to be no slowing you down! Where does this vitality come from? Do you still enjoy the road life, the process of producing albums, the business end of making it all work as much as ever?

Oh I like touring. A lot of bands don't. MTX. Weasel. Smugglers are gone apparently. Bottlerocket still tours a lot which is great. Ray and I were talking last month about doing another tour together so hopefully that will happen soon. That would be a blast. So sad when Brandon passed and I know how tough it is on Ray but I'm psyched they're still playing. We're slowly working on a new album-I'm getting songs together now-so we will record. We have a busy schedule but I love touring and playing. I mean you do a job that people cheer and clap and beg for more. That never happened when I was cooking at Joe's Place. Touring is like being back in 6th grade and camping out with your friends in the backyard. But Mom and Dad are gone so we have the run of the place. Non stop laughs. Shit it's better than sitting on my ass at home. I know some people sneer down their noses at it. 'You're still touring?!? In a VAN?! How can you stand it!!!' etc etc. Hey I owned a restaurant and worked for years commercial fishing offshore year round in New England. Touring is like a day at the Playboy Mansion compared to that.

DOCTOR FRANK

DOCTOR FRANK

What are some of your earliest memories of creating songs? Were these attempts encouraging? When did it occur to you that you might have a knack for it?

All of my musical activities started as play-acting, beginning with tennis racquet guitar playing, moving to using my dad’s old Spanish guitar as a prop, and eventually pretending to write songs for my imaginary rock star career.  It was very much like playing Batman or cowboys and Indians.  I would make noise on the guitar at random and yell out whatever seemed like the sort of stuff rock stars would yell, like “oh baby you are a baby why don’t you grow up a little and go to school and play sports”… that kind of thing.  Eventually these took on a more definite form, but they were still just props so no “song” was ever finished.  By the time I had started listening to the radio and had discovered rock and roll and punk rock, the Spanish guitar had been largely destroyed (and was eventually to wind up in several pieces) and I do recall some of the titles of fake songs from that time:  “God Rot Your Bloody Soul” with the chorus “curse the living, bless the dead” and “Dipping Mice in Bleach” which was later finished (kinda sorta) as an actual song several years later.

Not a very auspicious beginning, and there was never any question of a knack for it as it was only playing around.  You might as well ask if I had a knack for catching the Riddler or joining an Indian tribe as a renegade to avenge the death of my family, the great revenge of the Pawnee.  I was well into my 20s and my so called career as a punk rock guy before I decided I had something special to offer as a songwriter and then a good deal down the road from that decision before I realized I wasn’t as good as I was pretending to be and had to up my game.  All the while, and to this day, there was a strong element of playing Batman about the whole thing.

From what I recall you sharing, you learned to play open chords first. Are you self-taught? How did you become familiar with rock chord progressions? Was there a particular sound that you tried to emulate in the beginning?

My dad taught me G, C, D, and B7.  After that it was books I got from the library.  Rolling Stones easy guitar, which was basically just the piano sheet music with (often not quite accurate) chord diagrams printed above.  There was also a book with Pete Townshend’s handwritten instructions on how to play various Who songs.  That was too hard for me, mostly, but it introduced me to the idea of of letting chords and open notes ring out.  I was very far away from trying to emulate any particular sound.  It was all I could do to remember how the fingers went on the neck and the transition between chords could take anywhere from a few seconds to several hours.  It was all just strummed, campfire style.  I was that kind of guitar-player for about a decade.

Were you able to recognize early on that you had a distinctive style of songwriting? Who did you show your songs to in order to get feedback? Were there people rooting for you? When did you begin building confidence in your abilities?

I didn’t show anything to anyone.  In my own mind they were all great, but there wasn’t a reason for any of them to be more than half baked.  When I started playing with people, I came with this slate of half-unfinished songs but it still didn’t matter that they weren’t quite together.  We were just playing around, so nothing was ever subjected to any scrutiny, least of all by me.  I don’t know what would have happened had I had an incentive to try really hard to make them great, but that didn’t happen in any real way till well into my “career” after around ten years and a bunch of releases.

Did your family support your songwriting in the beginning? What feedback did you receive from them? Do you feel that anyone in your family particularly "gets" what you do musically?

It was always quite separate from my family.  They obviously heard me playing the guitar and singing (though it was really more like mumbling in that context.)  We used to do band practices in my living room and basement, and they tolerated it.  Now they appreciate it, but for most of those years I think it was just mystifying to them.

As you've mentioned in posts and in interviews, lyrics are key and lines ought not be wasted. How did you develop your style of lyricism that has become known for it's cleverness and high quality? Also, how were you recording ideas for titles and lines in the early days? I've seen your notebooks - was that format in use in the beginning?

It was mostly trial and error, with a whole lot of the trials and errors being, unfortunately, committed very publicly.  In the background of that, though, was an appreciation of good, traditional writing.  I was drawn to well-written songs, and had a lot of those pop standards and the more cerebral artsy rock songs always running through my head.   (I mean like, Tin Pan Alley, “show tunes”, Who/Kinks/Beatles, and, a bit later, country music.)  Occasionally I’d stumble on something of my own that would kind of work in similar ways, or parts of it would.  But weirdly, it never occurred to me till relatively late in that trajectory to think about what it was specifically that drew me to those sorts of songs and to try to reverse engineer them and try to make my own songs do that as well.  When I did think of doing that as a deliberate “project" (beginning around ’92/’93) my writing suddenly jump-started and leapt way up in quality, and then just kept improving.

It was only then that I started writing things down systematically (the notebooks).  Before that, lyrics often were often only written down at the last minute, right before recording them.  

So in one way, I suppose I could have skipped a lot of these steps and got a lot better a lot sooner.  But in another way, this idiosyncratic path probably did result in an idiosyncratic style that, for better or worse, couldn’t be done by anyone else.  Anyway, even if not ideal, it is the way it happened.

A key phrase that stuck with me in one of our earliest conversations was your apt comparison of retaining good song ideas to "catching lightning in a bottle". Prior to iPhones with voice memos (which I use), how did you catalog melodic ideas, song structures, etc.?

A lot of it just got lost, honestly.  But I always had tunes and words bubbling in my head, and part of songwriting was just pacing around, going about my business muttering the forming songs in my head.  That preserves things a bit:  people have been doing that for thousands of years, before writing was even invented.  But if inspiration were to happen to strike while I was sitting there with a guitar to catch it with, that’s the best scenario. The same as now really.  The iPhone voice memo thing has never worked all that well for me.  I have to go through the “massaging” process, whether it’s just in my head or otherwise.

Were you doing home recordings in the early days? I've heard many of your more recent demos and one thing that strikes me about them is how meticulous they are. You've commented on how you tend to massage the lump of clay that will become a song with care and consideration for a long time before the final form reveals itself. Have you always been very meticulous in your songwriting?

I never did solo demos of any kind till the mid 90s and at first it was only live recordings of more or less finished songs just to show them to the band and producer.  (Before that, the method was just, I’d play the song and the band would play along and that’s how we’d learn them.)  It wasn’t till I got a four track cassette “portastudio” around ’96 or ’97 or so that I started to use demos as part of the writing process.  That changed things a lot, because of being able to try stuff out on my own and also because I could be more specific about how I wanted the arrangements to come out and be better at communicating it to the band.  Soon after that I upgraded to ADAT (8 track)  and that’s when the demos got elaborate.  

As I’ve explained above, I hadn’t previously been very careful about the writing, though I did spend lots of time on it.   I was probably as meticulous as I could have been considering how slapdash the whole project was.  But when I started doing the demos it certainly got a whole lot more detailed and the songs improved accordingly.

Through the years, have you been able to appreciate and acknowledge the evolution of your songwriting? Were there certain periods or milestone accomplishments where you felt especially successful as a songwriter? Also, how do you feel about listening to your own songs? Do you do it often, and what's your general feeling towards revisiting your own creations?

Listening to my own records is a cringe-fest, almost without exception.  I only hear the flaws and the missed opportunities and the screw-ups and I’m kind of praying continuously in the background that it’s not as bad as I fear.  But as for the songs themselves, I am able to appreciate the ones that work particularly well, and all due self-deprecation aside, there are actually quite a lot of them, thirty years on.  I think each album, for all the considerable flaws of all them, represents a successive milestone of a sort, and a lot of the relative failures do genuinely result from trying to push, to stretch, to move beyond where things stood before.  And I appreciate the value of that, even though it can result in some awkwardness and things going off half-cocked.  I’ve mentioned the ’92 “leap”.  The Revenge Is Sweet songs (as songs, leaving out what happened to them in the studio) were a big leap as well.  etc.  The songs I’m writing now are the best of them all by sheer standards of composition, though it is an open question if anyone will every hear too many of them other than my cat.

Anyone who's had the privilege of beholding your vinyl collection could testify to your deep knowledge of what many would consider "classic" rock n' roll, in particular 70's rock. As you gained momentum and became MTX became more successful, did you feel a sense of disconnect with your audience? Many like myself have 90s nostalgia to spare, but I surmise that you have little.

Socially I have always felt a disconnect, and in a way that is the consistent thread running through the whole “career,” as writer and performer.  There has always been a bit of mutual hostility, of “us against the world” coming from both sides, from the earliest days of the MTX.  We/I were the odd man out in every situation, and that was largely self-engineered despite the fact that we’d occasionally complain about it.  Q; Why don’t you guys like our band?  A: Well, could it possibly be because you have deliberately tried as hard as you could to present us with material you knew we wouldn’t like?  Could it have something to do with that?  

But as to your question about aesthetics and nostalgia and such, you’re right.  I have no particular feeling about “the scene” in the ‘90s.   For me that psycho-dynamic would be more for Manchester or Belfast ’77-ish or Ray Davies’s Muswell Hill living room.

The 90's also saw the rise of several very formulaic variants of punk rock that MTX sometimes gets lumped into - the Ramonescore, the skate punk, etc. These aesthetics remain compelling to many (myself included), but it occurs to me that your songwriting has very little in common with this phenomenon. When did you first become aware of that association? Do you feel that being on Lookout! kind of reinforced it based on their roster at the time?

Right,  all that had very little to do with me or my band.  I remember the first time I noted the term “pop punk”:  that was in Europe in ’92 when we had to try to explain what we were doing to skeptical Dutch people.  They called it “kinderpunk” (and they weren’t into it at all.)  After that it became an ironic thing to say mainly, and I’ve never believed it referred to anything real or genuine.   I have always written pop songs, and my band is certainly on a branch of the “punk rock” family tree, so I suppose “punk pop” would be an accurate enough term (and that describes most punk rock of the original sort…. “punks” didn’t start forgetting how to write pop songs till around ’81 or so.)  And yet the records and songs don’t seem particularly “punk” to anyone either.  Nowadays the term “pop punk” seems to mean a kind of emo/screamo thing that is literally beyond my comprehension.  It doesn’t matter a great deal, or at all, really.   This one British journalist invented a genre called “punk pathetique” to refer to the Toy Dolls and Peter and the Test Tube Babies variety of Oi type music as it existed solely in the years 1981 and 1982.   I think it was probably meant as a prank, it’s so absurd.   But maybe some journalist could do that for my band.  It would have to be a one-band genre.  

There've been quotes and articles concerning human creativity that suggest there may be peak eras in a person's life when their creativity is the most potent - I've heard for example the claim that a person's creative peak is age 40. Sounds like bullshit! What are your thoughts on applying the songwriting lessons of your substantial career to fresh inspiration for new material? Do you feel that you're a better songwriter now than ever before?

I definitely do feel that my songs are better now.  They come more slowly (which may tell against me being a better songwriter per se) but they are of higher quality and they reach for new and different places.   I don’t know about this creative peak thing.  It seems more like, your life just gets filled up and you don’t have as much of an opportunity to indulge a largely uncompensated “job.”  Not many people, even great writers, even those way, way better than me, have the luxury of sitting around all day for days on end fooling around on the guitar.  

I'm interested to know if your recent fingerpicking journey has impacted your songwriting significantly? Also, watching you play acoustic guitar is a reminder that you have a seemingly deep knowledge of chord progressions beyond the standards (I-IV-V, I, vii, IV, V, etc.). How did you branch out and learn some of those more nuanced chords? Do you feel that your heightened level of guitar playing also elevates your songwriting?

I believe the fingerpicking exercise has taught me a lot about melody.  You really have to pay attention to what you’re picking out, and if it’s vague or monotonous or poorly conceived it just doesn’t work at all.  (As opposed to when you’re shouting and strumming and you can disguise such failings with histrionics.)  With chords, I’ve always been very utilitarian.  You use what works.  And I’ve never known a whole lot about the terminology or the “theory” beyond the instinctive.  When a song calls for a fancy or unusual chord, I always just invent it, note by note.  Then after the fact I may look it up to see if there are better ways to play it (as there usually are) and what it’s called (though I almost never retain that… I can’t tell you names of half the chords I play, to be honest.)

Your songwriting has always felt distinctly traditional in its form. You've talked about rhyming lyrics as a priority, and your compositions are rooted in the predictable yet often ascend to very high levels of craft melodically and structurally. In an early interview I vaguely recall you stating that you have a strong preference for writing rock songs that have a traditional structure. I can relate to it of course, but where does this tendency come from?

I suppose the root of it is simply that there’s a reason these traditional structures and compositional patterns emerged and established themselves:  they work, and because of that they appealed to me like they appeal to everyone.  But it took me a long road of trial and error, and quite a bit of not trying hard enough and regretting the resulting errors, to get to the point where I was able to make some of this stuff happen in my own songs.  But for all that, I’m not a hide-bound traditionalist either.  Just more like one of those guys who says, you can’t “break the rules” if you don’t know what the rules are.  As I said, it was a long, slow road. And we’re really not talking about anything overly complicated or rarefied here.  Just things like, know what the song’s about, make the rhymes actually rhyme, make the chorus identifiable and related to the topic in some way, make the musical stuff and the sentiments or ideas reinforce each other, make the song develop so that after the bridge you feel like you’ve wound up in at least a slightly different place… it seems very obvious, but it is weirdly hard to notice (maybe because in the best songs the seams don’t show and you take it all for granted); and once you’ve noticed, making it work in your own songs can be frustratingly elusive.  So I don’t exactly blame people for throwing up their hands and settling for less.  As I said, I did that myself for a long stretch.

As we wrap up, how do you look upon your legacy of songs recorded over the past 30 years, and what songwriting goals have you yet to meet? Do you feel that your audience acknowledges your songwriting in satisfying ways? You're known as the best to many, including yours truly.

Well thanks.  I know there are people who do appreciate my songs a great deal, and I appreciate them appreciating them right back at them, even more so.  When a song “lands”  it is immensely satisfying, because that’s the whole reason you spend the effort to construct it and it is so often the case that you’ll do it and no one cares at all.  I don’t have any goals, no, beyond the overall one of doing better and improving on past efforts.  Generally, the specific goals reveal themselves after the fact, after you’ve already stumbled on them and made a bit of a mess of whatever it was.  Then I guess you have the goal of doing a better job of the thing you stumbled on but didn’t quite nail, but that’s on an ad hoc basis.  Part of what makes this whole thing compelling is not really knowing where it’s going to lead and wanting to stick around to find out.  That sounds rather corny, I know, but it’s quite true. 

DAN VAPID

DAN VAPID

You've played in bands for a long time - but when did you begin writing your own songs? What were you going for stylistically at that time? Who were you showing the songs to for feedback?

The first semblance of songwriting was through journal entries around 15 or 16 years of age. The journal was a way of channeling depression, anxiety, and the confusion that went along with having these symptoms. At some point with these journal entries a type of rhythm or meter unconsciously emerged. Then I started to consciously write lyrics with the verse chorus structure. This pattern continued for about two years and I wouldn’t dare show anybody what I wrote for the fear of embarrassment. The writing was absolutely terrible, but it did help develop skills for rhythm/rhyming and served as a much needed release for what I was experiencing. During this time period, I collaborated on a few joke punk songs with friends in a garage. 

The first song I remember writing was called “Parental Control” which had a DRI/ Corrosion of Conformity influence. We thought the idea of the lyrics was funny even though my parents weren’t controlling at all; in fact, they were very much the opposite, but to a sixteen year old punk rock kid these facts hardly mattered. Despite these shenanigans, I got encouragement from friends to sing which led to my first “real” band called Generation Waste. In GW I was just the singer and didn’t get much encouragement for songwriting. 

When GW folded I was trying out other projects that never could get off the ground. Then, Screeching Weasel asked if I would join them on bass. I started to show Ben song ideas and could see he was impressed. I became a collaborator for the band in those early years. The real encouragement for songwriting that had lasting effect was through Ben and John. That meant a lot and is probably most of the reason why I continued down the path of songwriting. 

I've always been interested in the way you play guitar - it's a very honest and relatable style of strumming and your chord progressions also have a natural feel. How did you learn to play, and which came first for you - bass or guitar?

Bass came first-around the age of 15-to the aforementioned garage band. My older brother showed me a few guitar chords when I was 16, and I would play along to records. There were also various people along the way who taught me little licks, minor chords, etc. Playing guitar in Screeching Weasel likely shaped the way I strum the guitar the most.

Were the pop elements of your songwriting instinctual from the beginning? How did you come to understand the formulas for writing hooks and choruses? How did you develop your knowledge of song composition?

I’ve been an avid music fan since I was five years old, and although I would never admit it, I secretly loved pop hooks. When I was growing up I listened to hard rock and Metal which later opened the door to Hardcore and Punk. It may seem strange for a metal kid to secretly like pop hooks, but I did and wouldn’t tell anyone. Haha...When I discovered the Ramones and Naked Raygun, that changed everything for me. Those two bands captured the energy and attitude of punk with pop sensibilities. I also started to realize that what I wanted to achieve could be accomplished by playing three or four chords. But It wasn’t minimalism for the sake of minimalism that attracted me so much, it was about big guitars and punchy pop hooks with lots of style and attitude. It was about the song and effectively getting the job done.

I recall you sharing that you wrote "Crash of the Moons" while cooking dinner. Do you find that moments of inspiration often come when there's no instrument in your hand, and during everyday chores/activities? How do you catalog these ideas so you won't forget?

Yes, lots of my favorite songs were written while on a walk, driving, working, cooking dinner, lying in bed, playing a different instrument than a guitar, like a keyboard or piano, whatever. It’s usually when my mind is not thinking about songwriting that the best ideas come. I tend to jot down a lot on the notes section of my iPhone. There’s also a recording device I’ve hummed into many times. I’ve known many other musicians who’ve done the same.

Having worked with and alongside many other great songwriters, what were some lessons or habits that have helped you develop your own style? Also, who are some songwriters who you've admired then and now?

Years ago I used to watch Ben Weasel play chords and whistle a melody. That had an influence. Other than that, there was no secret formula or discovery. My tastes have changed somewhat over the years.

1987-1993: Ben, Joe, Kody, Dee Dee Ramone, Kim Shattuck, Jeff Pezzatti, John Haggerty, Milo Aukerman, Bill Stevenson, Rick Neilson, Buddy Holly, Little Richard, Elvis Costello, Blake Shwarzenbach, Bob Mould.

1995-2000: Beatles, Beach Boys, Johnny Cash, Hank Williams, Josh Caterer, Rhett Miller, Ennio Morricone (Spaghetti Western scores) Bill Conti ((Rocky, Bad Boys, Karate Kid scores).

2000-present: John Sampson, Ben Gibbard, Matt Skiba, Dan Adriano, Eric Carmen, Dolly Parton, Willie Nelson, Cliff Johnson, Björn Ulveras (ABBA).

These are some and shift often.

There's a certain timelessness to your songwriting that comes through in various ways - is this a characteristic that you strive for? Also, do you revisit your catalog often? How do you feel when listening to your own tunes? 

I always hope to write music that I think could be enjoyable years later. Sometimes it can be achieved but often can not. I listen to a recording I just made over and over before letting it go. When it’s released with its artwork and into the world I forget about it and move on to the next thing. It’s very rare that I listen to an older record of mine. When I do, it’s usually to reference something.

When you reflect on the many projects and bands you've been part of, is there one in particular that you would direct people to for reference? Is there an album you've recorded so far that you feel best represents your songwriting personality?

I honestly don’t know. I’m a strange bird in the sense where I enjoy lots of rock n' roll  but also enjoy a good amount of indie rock. The styles are in two different camps and rarely mingle so I usually feel musically Schitzo. If you like the former I would point to the Riverdales. If your a fan of the latter, I would point to Sludgeworth, Noise By Numbers.

Looking back at the Noise By Numbers album, do you feel that you accomplished all that you would like to writing in that style? It seemed to come very naturally.

No, I don’t think I’ve explored that side enough. If I ever continue in that direction I wouldn’t expect Riverdales fans to enjoy it much. Haha

Among your fans, I think there are many who would cite your Riverdales songs as favorites. Throughout that experience, how did your focus evolve when writing Riverdales songs? By the end it seemed as if you'd mastered the pop punk ballad as well as incorporating more melancholic melodies than on the self-titled and Storm the Streets.

I think it just came down to practice over a period of time. The repetition of writing is important while simultaneously not trying too hard, as I believe that overthinking can kill a song. It can be hard to know when to add to a song and when to subtract, or when to walk away and revisit later with fresh ears. These skills develop overtime for many musicians but are crucial. I also believe enthusiasm plays a huge role. If you’re with the right people and environment that energy can lend itself to creativity. If you’re having fun with the process it will likely show with the result.

All this said, the first Riverdales record didn’t capture what I had hoped. Riverdales fans seem to like that record but I’m more of a fan of what we did later.

The Dan Vapid and the Cheats albums so far have felt like a very natural and honest expression of your musical instincts. Was it a comfort to be able to steer that ship in any direction that felt right? Is having a namesake band significant in any other way to you?

It’s nice to be able to steer that ship in any direction, and there is some flexibility with this band in terms of making songs which differ from each other. That being said, I still don’t feel comfortable playing anything I come up with as I feel it would be jarring to the listener. As long as song ideas mesh on the same record they are welcome. Having a name sake band had no real significance. I’m just happy to write songs and play them to people who like them.

The All Wound Up albums have a vitality and spirit that suggest you having a great time while writing and recording those songs. What was different in terms of inspiration? Also, do you sense that your sons may someday take an interest in songwriting, too?   

The difference with inspiration was the songs are either written through the eyes of my kids, or through my eyes towards my kids. That approach produced more than I could keep up with. A fair amount of decent songs were dropped that will never see the light of day.

Whether my kids take to music is hard to say. They get to hear a lot of music, but so far, their interest is with Star Wars and Legos, etc...time will tell.

One thing I've found admirable and relatable about your career is that you've reached a point where the focus must be on your family and responsibilities first, but your passion and productivity have not slowed as a result. Is it difficult to find that balance? In particular, is it challenging to create the kind of high-quality result you would ideally want given the high costs and lower expectations for financial return?

Yes! This is an excellent question. Parenthood has its rewards but comes with time constraints. The less you play live makes creating records a tougher sell for everybody. Luckily, I was able to get some good recordings with a lower budget and haven’t been in debt from anything.  Financial returns from record sales are something I don’t think about much anymore. Those days are long gone.

You're looked upon by many (myself included) as a major contributor to the genre of pop punk, musically and aesthetically. Are you interested in any current bands who play that traditional style of Ramones-influenced punk, bearing in mind that you are likely a major influence? Who are some current songwriters you enjoy listening to?

I like the Lillingtons and Masked Intruder. Horror Section are pretty decent as well. My favorite songwriters span many genres.

Finally, what are some of your current projects in the works, and what musical goals remain for you as a songwriter and artist?

I’m working on the third Dan Vapid and the Cheats record. It’s been a battle for time but I’ve been chipping away at it. I’m hoping to have it out by fall.

*Follow-up questions:

As a songwriter, do you feel there's a link between creativity and depression? Have you found this to be a common experience among songwriters you've known? Does the recurring nature of anxiety and depression have an effect on your creative process? Do you feel that having low or negative feelings can actually benefit your songwriting?

Yes, I believe there is a connection between depression and creative people of all types. If you do a quick search on the internet of writers, artists, musicians, afflicted with depression you’ll come across many household names like William Faulkner, Ernest Hemingway, Raymond Chandler, Vincent Van Gogh, Woody Allen, Kurt Kobain, Mark Twain, Robin Williams, etc..Even Abraham Lincoln was believed to have depression. These artists and innovative thinkers influenced countless people across the span of many generations while likely feeling awful inside. I know in my heart that many creative people secretly wish they could just be “normal” and not have to feel pulled down by the enormous weight of doom and gloom in their day to day lives. They are built differently and must make the best of their circumstance. No amount of fame, money or achievement can cure this. There’s nothing romantic about depression and anxiety. It sucks, plain and simple. Many times, people with this design of the brain feel like their walking on the margins of society; I know I often do, and sometimes being an observer on the lonesome fringes lends a different perspective most people would not see.

Do you see music as a source of spirituality at all? What are your thoughts on the elusive and abstract nature of capturing a compelling melody or lyric? Do you ever feel that you are "channeling" rather than creating when you write songs?

Great question. I consider myself agnostic but was raised in a catholic family. At the age of thirteen I saw a lot of hypocrisy with people of Christian faith and my mind constantly questioned gods existence. There is a conflict between head and heart on the matters of religion and the afterlife. My mind-and common sense-thought the afterlife and the existence of god made as much sense as the belief in Santa Clause. My heart, yearned for the story of Christ to be true. But I didn’t believe he parted the Red Sea, turned water into wine, restored sight to the blind. I’m a believer in the principles of what Christ taught but can’t get behind a magical super human, son of god, derived from the birth of a virgin. This creates an inner conflict and type of yearning. It’s possible that a spiritual void is soothed from songwriting but ultimately can not be fixed through these means. 

To answer the later question, I do feel like songs are often “channeled” like there’s a radio antenna built within and the song is pulling me along instead of the opposite. It’s a very interesting experience. Like I said earlier, many songs are created while away from instruments or thoughts of music. I’ve seen both Ben Weasel and Joe King both make up songs while away from their guitars. I do the same, and I’m sure many musicians do as well.

Do you see a link between heavy metal and pop punk among those you've befriended throughout your career? Is it possible that the two styles address or satisfying similar needs in different ways? Who were/are your favorite metal bands?

There was definitely a link between metal and punk rock. Thrash metal was my introduction to punk and hardcore from bands like Metallica and Slayer, wearing punk shirts like misfits, discharge. I can remember thinking if Metallica likes this band called the Misfits I better check them out.  In the mid- eighties, it was fairly common to see metal heads at punk and hardcore shows. Soon after, hardcore bands like DRI, Suicidal Tendencies, Corrosion of Conformity, began crossing over into metal. 

Do you ever feel that your songwriting is constrained by your technical abilities as a player, or does it help somehow? What are your thoughts about giving other players the freedom to interpret your compositions as they see fit? Do you tend to encourage that when you collaborate with other musicians?

There are times when song ideas run against the constraints of technical abilities. When faced with these constraints, it can be frustrating. I start wishing that I could play or sing better. But it’s not worth it.  The originality of anyone doing something creative comes from who they truly are. So, take bold steps and sing your song. I once heard Dave Grohl (yes, I have to quote Dave Grohl to make a point, sorry) talk about if Bob Dylan was unknown and on “the Voice” what would likely happen. He’d get booted off, right? I tend to think Bob Dylan wouldn’t even make it past an audition. So, if you have a voice like proverbial acne but can move me in a different way, then let the blemishes show. Music isn’t always about presenting this airbrushed perfection. Sometimes character comes with those blemishes.

As far as collaborating is concerned, I always ask my bandmates to hear their interpretations of my material first. I know what I’m thinking and they might have something better. If they do, I will use it. There’s no pride, it’s just about serving the song the best way possible. 

As a music fan, do you find that you are "stuck" in any particular era of music, or are you prone to seeking out new music and styles? Do you find it challenging to balance your time between creating music that's yours while also indulging the "fan" in you by continuing to collect, listen to, research other bands? Are there any styles of music that you've discovered in more recent years that have made a significant impact on you - personally or creatively?

Some people have this idea that I’m a “Ramonescore”  guy from playing in the Riverdales. Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely LOVE the Ramones, always will and hold them dear to my heart. But, I like lots of other music as well. For example, within the last week I’ve listened to: Death Cab For Cutie, Weakerthans, the Zombies, Rhett Miller, the Caesars, The Bee Gees, Metallica, Motley Crue, Ben Folds Five, Smoking popes, ELO. 

I think some Riverdales fans might be surprised by this, but they shouldn’t. Genres don’t matter to me at all. Write and perform a great song and I will likely listen. As far as discovering new bands is concerned, i tend to think a great band will find me eventually whether I’m actively looking or not.

KEPI GHOULIE

KEPI GHOULIE

At what point in your life did you begin writing songs? What instrument were you writing with? Did you take any formal lessons? Which artists/bands were you most inspired by in the beginning? 

I think I wrote my first songs in high school, I do not vouch for the awesomeness of them. I started writing on acoustic guitar. I took lessons until I learned the 7 open chords, and then I was dismissed. I took 2 lessons since then. Always the Ramones, Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan, Tom Petty, Neil Young.

Minimalism is an obvious feature of your songwriting, though you are versatile. Do you find writing the short ones to be particularly fun/satisfying?

I do enjoy Little Richard and the 2:22 song, but I also don’t want to be wordy for the sake of it. I write what comes out, and keep what I think will last... minimalism often works well in that/those situation(s).

Do you tend to have a certain routine or approach to writing a new song? What's your usual method?

I try not to have an “approach” or songwriting style... sometimes music first, sometimes lyrics.... but I don’t ever want to have a formula. I think that it is good and healthy for an artist to have various approaches. No rules!

Over the years you've cultivated a very large catalog of songs. Do you go back and listen often? Is it enjoyable for you to listen to your own music?

In the Ghoulies, we were touring so much I never really listened to my own stuff. But since “I Bleed Rock n Roll”, I have actually enjoyed listening to my output as the production and guest musicians has/have increased and I am kind of in awe at the talent my friends have! Producers, guest guitarists, background vocal friends...

Some of your songs have a perfect and simple structure of verse/chorus/verse, like Brain Scrambling Device and Lonely Heart Blues. Are there any songs you've done where you felt like the result was ideal?

I like the simplicity of my songs... it leaves room for one to apply it to one’s own life/experiences. Two songs that I find SURPRISINGLY simple that continue to entertain me are “School is Out” from Re-Animation Festival and “Let’s Go To The Moon” from Fun in the Dark. The songs tell me when they are done... some are like buttermilk biscuits: a few small ingredients but SO delicious!

Something noteworthy about your career is your tendency to collaborate frequently with other artists, including your support of young artists (Little Medusas, Dog Party etc.). What motivates you to continue collaborating?

As far as collaboration, I just like working with people who are positive and enthusiastic... I am fortunately far enough along in my career where the people I work with know what it is all about: passion, art, community.

You've done many great cover songs over the years. How do you go about selecting covers, and which artists that you've covered have had the greatest influence on your own music?

In the Ghoulies (and now) I choose to cover songs that I like, that many in the general public may not know... or a friend’s song that I think deserves to be heard by the rest of the world... I may not have a huge reach, but I figure every little bit helps! I guess the covers of Chuck Berry, Bob Dylan, Ramones, and Rolling Stones were the artists that had an obvious influence on me.

Pop punk as a genre has developed over the last 30 years, and you've contributed significantly to its aesthetic and form. Many find it inviting as a basis for beginning as a songwriter. What are your thoughts on the genre today? Are there any specific pop punk bands/songwriters who you feel are contributing something unique and worthwhile?

Pop punk as a genre: I think of it all as high energy rock and roll, but I understand the need of the masses to sub-classify everything... I did not used to care for the word “pop-punk” it kind of sounds flippant and dismissive, but good music is good music and this “genre” has definitely graced me with some fine friends and acquaintances so, I give thanks!

The current “unique” contributors for me are Copyrights and NOBUNNY, as I feel both continually add fresh twists to traditional musical genres.

You have maintained a very positive and welcoming vibe throughout your career, despite many challenges and struggles along the way. You've also managed to avoid controversy for the most part, other than the break-up of the Ghoulies which most understood and respected. How challenging has it been for you to maintain this aura of positivity and good humor despite it all?

The Groovie Ghoulies experience was and continues to be a huge milestone in and of my existence... I give thanks for every minute of it... remarkably AND fortunately, my life has continued on, I have gained an even greater sense of gratitude and positivity in this chapter: new friends, more music, new art, continued health and happiness... I can only thank everyone in my orbit for all that they do... there are SO MANY people in less fortunate conditions than us... what can you do besides be grateful?

Reflecting on what has been a very prolific and influential career so far, what are your thoughts on having inspired many other songwriters and having a Ghoulies tribute album? What words of wisdom might you offer the aspiring songwriter?

TWO tribute albums!!!! Whenever I doubt anything I think of this: the fact that anyone thinks my songs are worth covering is the greatest honor of all... it really is quite special! I would tell a songwriter to write the song that THEY would want to hear... because in the end oneself is the only person you have to account for!

KODY TEMPLEMAN

KODY TEMPLEMAN

At what point in your life did you begin creating songs? Was it for The Hybrids or before? How did you go about it at first? Were you trying to emulate certain bands?

I had a band with some guys from high school and we played covers mostly. We tried writing original songs but they were pretty terrible so It was with the Hybrids essentially. We had a few band name changes before we went with The Hybrids, but it was the same group of guys.
 
We just tried writing songs like the bands we were listening to at the time. Misfits/Danzig, Circle Jerks, that kind of stuff. When I heard Screeching Weasel and The Queers we started shifting to a poppier sound. We also got into bands like Face to Face and NOFX.

How long had you been playing guitar prior to writing your own songs? Did you demo or record the earliest stuff?

Probably 3 or 4 years. I started out learning hair metal stuff like Poison, Cinderella, and eventually Metallica. I would have started a band sooner but it was tough finding other musicians in butt fuck Wyoming.

Who did you show your earliest songs to? Was your family giving you any feedback? Who was rooting for you the most, if anyone?

My parents thought our songs were shit and they were pretty much right. My parents did support me though. We mostly showed our friends at school. We wrote a lot of songs about Shane’s brother Silver and people thought they were funny.

Do you recall the first song you wrote where you felt satisfied with the result? In general, do you enjoy listening to your own recordings after the fact? 

I think Alien Girl was the first song I was really proud of. I listen to my own songs every now and then but it’s usually when I’m alone or with a trusted accomplice.

Do you feel that songwriting gives you a voice to express yourself in ways that you normally don't get to? Can you describe the "high" you get from coming up with a new idea or completing a song that you know will be good?

I don’t really have much to say when I write songs but finishing a song is a very rewarding feeling. I usually get caught up in the process until it’s complete. I tune out everything until I have things nailed down.

I recall you saying that Get Wrecked was your favorite record you'd written (this was circa 2011). Do you still feel that way? What was unique about the time period and state of mind you were in while Sack was happening?

Yeah, I still feel that it’s some of my best work. There was no pressure and I was drinking a lot and just wanted to write songs that were funny and upbeat. I’m thankful that it worked out the way it did. I think i’ve written better songs since then, but I always go back and listen to that record and get a chuckle.

Do you have a different approach to writing songs for TBR than Lillingtons? Occasionally some TBR songs have had a Lillingtons vibe, and I know Bigger Than Kiss was originally for Sack. In general do you just write about whatever and see where it might fit?

No, I write songs for Bottlerocket the way I’ve always written them. I get a song title or Idea and run with it. The newest Lillingtons album was done in a totally different mindset. We really tried to keep it cohesive as far as subject matter.

While writing for Stella Sapiente, what moods and feelings were you trying to get across through the songs? I personally feel that record has a very heavy atmosphere and a much deeper feel than your previous work. Do you feel a spiritual connection to those songs?

Definitely! Stella is a very spiritual album for me. It’s a lot closer to the kind of stuff I listen to now. lyrically I wanted to write about the stuff I’ve been into lately and we really fleshed out the feel of the album before we started writing songs for it. 

Do you think that your writing for TBR and other records going forward will be impacted by your experimentation and evolution realized on Stella? Do you feel more comfortable branching out into other styles now compared to past eras?

I’m sure it will rub off a bit. It was fun trying different things musically with that album and I’d like to keep doing that. It was really refreshing to try new shit and it’s really lit a fire under my ass to keep writing.

Something I've always been interested in is what a full-blown metal project might sound like if you were the songwriter. You've demonstrated that you can adapt your songwriting to various moods and themes - have you given much thought to writing a pure metal album?

I wouldn’t be opposed, but I lack the technical skill to do anything that I would like to hear. I also think there are plenty of great metal bands out there doing that genre justice, so I’m not that motivated to try and keep up with them.

You've never been into doing acoustic recordings or performances. Is there a particular reason for this? 

I like some acoustic stuff, but I don’t like playing it. I need power!!! And again, there are plenty of acoustic artists that are doing it right and I don’t feel like I’d be adding anything.

Could you please name some of the songwriters who were most influential to you as you were learning and developing your own style? Which favorite songwriters have you befriended as a result of your success doing your own music, and how does that feel?

I’ve always loved old Danzig albums and I was a big Screeching Weasel fan for a long time. Those were big influences on me when I started. I’ve met Ben and he’s an interesting guy. I’ll always respect him for what he did. There are a lot of great people that I’m happy to say that i’ve met through playing music. I guess one of the major star struck moments was meeting the guys in Municipal Waste. I met them when I was really into their band and it was kind of surreal.

Can you name a moment when you felt the greatest sense of accomplishment/acknowledgement as a songwriter? What do you feel is your best song that you've ever written?

When Bottlerocket started getting successful and we were touring more than I was working my day job I remember feeling happy that we were getting to do what I’d always wanted as a kid which was playing tunes and travelling the world. We were playing countries I had never dreamed of seeing and as a bonus we were drawing crowds in those places. I can’t pick a song that I feel is my BEST. I have songs that I like more than others, but it’s like asking a parent which kid they like more. 

You're regarded as one of the best pop punk songwriters, but I know that you've largely moved on from this style of music as far as your personal tastes are concerned. What's your view of pop punk as a genre today? Do you think it's still worthwhile? Is there a timelessness to it? 

I’ll always still like pop punk. There are new bands that constantly get me stoked on the genre again, and I often go back to some of the old albums that inspired me in the beginning. I think it will always be relevant to the people that love it.  That’s all that it has to be. A lot of people complain about terrible pop punk bands, but if those bands love what they’re doing then who has a right to tell them otherwise. If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all.

What are your future goals as a musician and songwriter? 

I think I’ll always have the urge to keep writing songs. I like doing it and it’s especially easy nowadays to get your stuff out there as you know. It’ll always be an option for me.