JASON V

JASON V

Grim Deeds: All right, dude. This is it. We're going.

Jason V: All right.

Grim Deeds: So the first thing I want to ask you about is Blood in the Streets and how you feel about this as kind of a milestone for you personally and for the Jasons, how it's been received, the process, and everything leading up to it. To me, it's definitely probably the best sounding thing that you've put out and the songwriting has taken a whole different turn. Everything about it is really impressive and solid.

Grim Deeds: Plus you went for some really dark artwork and some interesting lyrics and styles. So yeah, talk about how it feels right now.

Jason V: Yeah man. I think really it's everything that we hoped it would be. So that's cool and it's rare to put something out and be like, this is exactly what we wanted and this is exactly what we hoped as far as the reception. Like all the things that we were going for. I keep hearing people, like the reviews and people that talk about it being like, yeah this is the Jasons showing that they're more than their gimmick.

Jason V: That was the aim to be like, taken a little bit more seriously. As seriously as you can be taken when you wear spandex leather pants and hockey mask, as serious as you can get with that. But I mean, it's weird though. I think there is a part of it that, I don't feel like we're doing anything super, duper different but it's just that we're maybe doing things a little bit better, a little bit more refined I guess. Trying to write more songs that don't necessarily deal with the Friday the 13th thing, while at the same time trying to keep enough on there that it still feels like a Jason director.

Grim Deeds: Yeah. Do you think some of that owes to the fact that you guys have just put in so much work? I can only imagine the amount of hours of thought and actual playing shows and the attention put towards merchandise and communicating and everything. I mean you guys really put a lot of yourselves into this band and this project.

Grim Deeds: I can only imagine that that is its own reward after a certain point 'cause you're always looking for opportunities to grow and make it better, right?

Jason V: Yeah. Certainly. Because I think once we decided ... I don't know if it's that we decided or we realized that we weren't going to have any help. So it's like we're not going to have any labels, we're not going to have any backing other than just people that support us that like the band. So that sort of pushed us to just do more.

Jason V: Especially me and 3D, every single day he's working on artwork. He does every tee shirt, he does every interior of the record, all of our flyers. He was doing that and I was just writing songs every day. This was the first one that we actually went over. I normally just write lyrics and then that's it but we really spent a lot of time going over that stuff and just, yeah man.

Jason V: I didn't feel like I could actually sleep a night until the record was, like on social media. Like on all those like Spotify and stuff. When that finally happened I was like, okay I can sleep. 'Cause my brain starts going with these racing thoughts of what can I do, what else can I do? We have $50 in the bank. Oh can we buy some buttons? What can we buy?

Jason V: It's just like complete obsession with trying to do more and more stuff. It definitely feels like ... 'Cause I feel like there's no, not that we're martyrs or something but we do feel like we work really hard at it and it's cool to see that pay off.

Jason V: I'm the only member that works on Sundays. Everyone else has Friday and Saturday of every weekend off. So it's like, if we play on Saturday in New York, which we do all the time, or Jersey, whatever, it's like we drive eight hours, play the show, drive back and I go to work.

Grim Deeds: Wow.

Jason V: So it's like, and again that's like my choice and it's great and it's not a martyr thing. But it's cool that that pays off.

Grim Deeds: Well and I would like to add that nothing you guys have ever done recordings wise, merch-wise, every detail down to the layouts and the quality of the jewel cases and stuff, you guys never half-ass at anything and that really shows. I have a lot of respect for you because I can look at any artifact of Jasons merch or songs and know that 100% of yourselves went into it.

Jason V: Yeah.

Grim Deeds: That's cool, man.

Jason V: That's from KISS. We stole that from KISS. I mean, there's no better merchandising band. And it's like, especially me man. I want all that shit. If I like a band and they have 10 covers of their record, if I like them enough I want to own it. Then of course now I own it for a little bit and then I get desperate and sell it to buy Jasons stuff.

Jason V: But as a fan, I want to own everything.

Grim Deeds: Yeah. Is there also a sense in which, as you were saying, you have a fairly loyal following now and you've accomplished a lot? I mean you have many albums under your belt, many shows and tours and so forth. Is there a sense in which being a bit more established gives you confidence to just take it in any direction you feel like taking it?

Jason V: Yeah sort of. It's like, I think the confidence just comes from knowing that there are those ... I feel like there's two guys in every city that we play. Even if there's not a ton of people that are full blown fans, it seems like there's a couple guys, or ladies, that we run into. It's like, oh there's only 50 people at this show, oh we're not going to sell anything. And then there's always those couple that come up and they're like, yeah give me one of everything.

Jason V: Sometimes they're like, yeah I already own this but I know you're on tour. Give me one of everything. So it's like, as long as you got a couple, especially in today's music atmosphere, if you have a couple people in every city that are super hardcore for your band, that's enough to be like, well we got somebody there that's got our back. 'Cause everything's so fickle.

Jason V: I think people listen to a record for a couple weeks and then they're done with it. But we have lots of dudes with Jasons tattoos and lots of-

Grim Deeds: Nice.

Jason V: ... just people that are all about it. When we sold our gear ... every time we do a new record we sell old stuff, old gear and old masks and all that stuff. It was like, I was listing stuff and getting ready to be like, hey this sale's live, and stuff was selling already. Like amp heads and backdrops and it was like, whoa there are people that want to own a piece of it. So that was pretty cool.

Grim Deeds: Wow.

Jason V: It's cool to have at least some sort of established fan base of people. Like is the case with many bands who have that visual element or put out lots of merch, there are people that get into it that are super, super hardcore into it.

Grim Deeds: Well and what that also suggests to me is like, that you guys built something from the ground up and you did it yourselves on your own terms, whereas there are bands and definitely in the pop punk world where they might just come out with their first album or something and it for whatever reason becomes a little hot item and everyone's stoked on it. And then they might just launch right into being cool or having people pay attention to them.

Grim Deeds: But maybe it won't last too long or maybe it will. But I just think it's cool when you can look at a history of a band. And the Jasons have been around for a pretty long time now and just have integrity, I think, based on sticking to what you wanted to do, doing it yourselves, not kissing anyone's ass and not having to try to pull favors in order to get ahead. You know what I mean?

Jason V: Yeah. We're really, really not about trying to do that. We don't want to break into any sort of popularity or scene by asking for favors. That was real important to us. When we put out our first record, we were a band for a month. So you can definitely see the progression of us sucking real bad at our instruments and getting better. So if nothing else, I think people see us as ... A lot of people that have been into the band that long are like, they feel proud of us.

Jason V: 'Cause I hear it all the time, I'm so proud of you guys for getting this record out. I'm so proud of you guys for doing this, because they've seen the progression. Where some bands practice and really try to hone everything before they put something out and I definitely understand that. But I was like, man I just want to get a record out. I want people to know the Jasons are a thing.

Grim Deeds: That's cool.

Jason V: But the whole thing about pulling favors man, 'cause again when you start doing that, then you owe people and other people have ownership in your music. That's why we're not into crowdfunding and all that.

Jason V: As a gimmick band (I acknowledge that we're a gimmick band) I have a cousin who's a mask maker and he makes masks for the band Mushroomhead. We're two totally different bands but it's like, people are always like, "Oh man you guys should talk to him and get in with ..."

Jason V: And it's like, I don't want to ask anybody to pull in a favor like that. I don't think we would necessarily fit on a bill with Mushroomhead but I don't know, maybe the aesthetic of the whole thing would work. But it's just like, having those opportunities and not wanting to do it, not wanting to be those guys that try to bug other bands to help them get somewhere.

Grim Deeds: Yeah well that's interesting. It kind of leads into the next question. You guys have had a lot of interesting opportunities and the one I would like to ask about first is playing the Gathering of Juggalos because to me, you guys have never been a band that squarely fit into the Ramonescore scene because that's its own thing.

Grim Deeds: You guys have definitely acknowledged it's part of it but to me it seems like your fan base are people that may not necessarily know all the Lookout and Screeching Weasel and MTX records but they might still like punk rock and they might like, I don't know, the Misfits. They might have some other point of entry but it's not like, the Jasons are a pop punk scene type of band necessarily. I think that you guys have ... I think you just sort of exist on your own terms in your own realm. That's why when I saw you guys were going to play that, it just made sense.

Grim Deeds: It's like, my interpretation of that event is that its people who really are down for just having a good time and supporting the bands and the music that they like. So how did that even happen?

Jason V: So the way that it happened really for us was kind of like ... And that's the approach is just like we don't want to be pigeonholed into any scene. 'Cause when we started, we got kind of adopted into that horror punk thing. That scene is a complete shit hole in many ways. I mean there were good people and some good bands but any time there's like a scene, it's just ... I think with any scene. I think pop punk, I think horror punk, anything, there becomes these cliques and you have to worship the kings of the scene and your only hope is to be an underling.

Jason V: If you're in the horror punk, all you can ever do is bow at the feet of your fucking Michael Graves or your Glenn Danzigs and that's as famous as you get. Or if you're in pop punk you have to bow down to the Queers or the Lillingtons or whatever it is. Whoever.

Jason V: To them, and I know I'm going off topic, but I even just heard someone say that the Queers aren't a Ramone'score band. So just that level of elitism and this is Ramonescore, this isn't Ramonescore. So any time we start getting adopted into a scene, we try to sort of make sure that it's known that we're not of that scene. In it but not of it.

Jason V: So anyways, long way around. But the Gathering of Juggalos was, we saw some post. If you're interested in playing send us your demo. We did it without ever thinking that would be a possibility. But we just sent a request and they called us and I think it was that whole organization, that whole festival is like, I didn't know that Insane Clown Posse was such a sort of tight-knit operation.

Jason V: So Violent Jay's brother just called and he's just like, yeah we don't have punk bands play here hardly ever. He was like, but if you guys are interested, I think he saw our image and kind of how we promote and stuff. He was just like, I don't know if people are going to be into it but you can try. And we were like why not?

Jason V: It started kind of as a joke in a way 'cause we didn't think it would be possible, but we're definitely excited to play it. I think people think we're going to go into it and troll all of the Juggalos or do it as some sort of joke but I mean, I just kind of see people who maybe haven't listened to a whole lot of punk rock who will probably dig four Jasons up there saying fuck 100 times. I can't imagine that a Juggalo wouldn't like that. I can't imagine anybody wouldn't like that.

Grim Deeds: Well one thing that ... yeah that's cool. That's a cool insight. I think that Juggalo culture, it may be on the surface easy to poke fun at, but if you've ever watched any of the coverage of those events or documentaries on it and stuff, it's something admirable. It's like, people who are cut from the same cloth getting together and having a fun time together. It's not like a violent thing. There's really no negativity around it.

Grim Deeds: There's people who are rough around the edges for sure, but the spirit of that event has always seemed very positive and affirming. I think that's how I see you guys too. 'Cause obviously you're fans of all kinds of gnarly shit but at the end of the day it's a fun positive outlet.

Jason V: Yeah. I think we're just going to try to go and spend the entire ... I think we're going to go for all three days and I think we're going to, as soon as we wake up we're going to put our gear on and just be the Jasons all three days the whole time. That way, every Juggalo knows that the Jasons are there. Whether or not they come and see us or not, I mean we're going to just hang out in our masks the whole time and see if we can make some friends. I don't know.

Grim Deeds: I'm sure you will.

Jason V: We might come back with Hatchetman tattoos, you never know. It might be our thing now, you know.

Grim Deeds: Yeah you're going to be probably posing for a lot of photos with some different people. That's going to be cool. So on the same note, you guys have an endorsement with Kramer guitars now, which I think is fucking awesome. You and I talked a little bit about your approach to just kind of seizing opportunities wherever you think you might possibly get in and just going for it. Is that how you came into contact with Kramer?

Jason V: Yeah. I was looking for a stock guitar and since we were ... I had done custom guitar stuff before that and I really was looking to just find something that was a stock model. The more we started pushing our image a little bit towards that KISS revenge era, I started thinking like, I need an ugly fucking '80s guitar. Like some kind of pointy head stocked thing.

Jason V: I went through Jackson and I was okay with it. I finally settled on Kramer. I found this yellow Kramer with a banana head stock and I was just like, oh it's fucking Bruce Kulick. This is the guitar that I need to play. I just became enamored with it and I started trying to convince everybody else, like dudes we need to play Kramer 'cause Kramer is a dead brand. I was like, if we all play Kramer, we can say we're endorsed by Kramer and it'll be hilarious 'cause Kramer's dead.

Jason V: And then we had all of these promo photos set up and then Kramer resurrected and said, "Hey we're starting back again." And we were like fuck. So we just started pestering them and we made this press kit and just it was like a KISS army fan force packet thing. It had a folder with our faces on it and stuff and we sent them this newsletter from the 1980s that was like, focused on the Jasons in an alternate universe and all this stuff.

Grim Deeds: That's awesome.

Jason V: And the dude just called me up and said, "That's the best press kit I've ever gotten." He said, "I've worked here for 20 years. That's the best press kit I've ever seen."

Jason V: So I think it was our just pestering them and it was cool, man 'cause even before that we were looking at ... There was a lot of guitar companies that will endorse you but it was cool to be endorsed by a company that we actually care about. We didn't want to settle 'cause there are guitar companies out there that will endorse you if you pay them. If you buy a guitar from them, they will endorse you.

Jason V: I don't want to say any names but where with us it was like, we already owned Kramers. I own six Kramers, 3D owns two Kramers. So it was like, they're like if you want more guitars we'll give you the artist discount and stuff but it was just 'cause we were enthusiastic about it.

Grim Deeds: Wow. Now I mean, imagine the opportunities that could arise because Kramer is a brand, they're not in the punk world really. They're more in a certain slice of the metal and hard rock community where like shred guitar and '80s AOR music and hard rock and heavy metal, like traditional metal and hair metal, shit like that. So it's just cool that you guys are in that mix because it's nice. I think it's cool to be the odd man out on the roster because it can just invite more opportunities and have people maybe take a second look.

Grim Deeds: Whereas they might just scroll through their feed as usual.

Jason V: Yeah. I kind of look at it too like, because they kind of died out for a little while there and came back, all of their artists that really seemed to have personality kind of left. So they had Steel Panther. Steel Panther bailed on them and I honestly can't even think of anybody else they had that was super cool. Just that you could say, oh that guy plays a ... So I was like yeah man we may not be a famous band but I feel like if I'm the only person that has an image that's playing a Kramer Baretta '84, then people would be like, yeah that's the Jason V model.

Grim Deeds: That's cool man.

Jason V: If you're playing a Gibson Les Paul or something, you have a lot of competition.

Grim Deeds: For sure.

Jason V: You have Slash and all these other people but if no one else plays it, it can be your signature model really.

Grim Deeds: Well I mean that's something you were hinting at earlier about having your own kind of niche and doing the Jasons and not being necessarily part of any particular scene, like horror punk or pop punk. I think it is really a big challenge for a lot of artists to aspire to do something that's individualistic and original in some way.

Grim Deeds: I mean even though you guys do have your hockey masks and stuff, it's still the lore of the Jasons is something that you have created and it's something that is unique to you. There's no other bands doing specifically what you're doing. You've been doing it long enough now where it's established as a thing. I really respect it because how common is it to see just bands aping their influences and trying to hone that to a tee.

Grim Deeds: Then even if you create it or recreate it rather, how far is that really going to resonate with people in the end? It's like, "Okay, here's another one."

Jason V: Yeah. That's how I felt when we made the change for Blood in the Streets because we were definitely making some real straightforward Ramonescore stuff and I had my custom "Mos-wrong" Johnny Ramone clone and we were tracking down the little Johnny Ramone twister cuffs and that was cool. But at some point I kind of started feeling like I do want to have my own identity rather than just Johnny Ramone with a hockey mask.

Jason V: I wanted to have something a little bit different that felt like, yeah more of an individual thing. Something that didn't just feel like a clone of someone else.

Grim Deeds: Well and I've always got the sense that you and the other guys, but I mean I know you more, are somebody who has a lot of personality to offer and a lot of individual perspective to offer. There's a distinction to be made between people who just make music to be in a band and people who are really creatively driven and have a lot of varying influences. I feel like you are that.

Jason V: I hope so. I definitely, the more I start to feel like I fit in to something the more I want to branch out of it. It's not just being like oppositional towards things but I think I like to try and stand apart from the herd in some way. Whether or not it's just playing a metal guitar in punk rock or whatever it is.

Jason V: I think that's what it should be. Nobody should just aspire to be the best clone of another band. I've been guilty of that for sure but once you achieve that, you start to realize that if the farthest you can go is the second rung of the ladder.

Grim Deeds: I get what you mean.

Jason V: If you're content with that, you're content with that. But I know we're not content with that. All the bands that we listen to weren't content with that.

Grim Deeds: Well and it has its place certainly. Like I'll throw on bands sometimes that are definitely nothing new necessarily but it's just more of a certain style that I really enjoy. Like thrash metal's a good example 'cause there's plenty of thrash that's just very generic and very by the numbers, even more so than Ramonescore in some cases 'cause they really want to go back to the '80s and look and make sure their sneaker tongues are sticking out enough and stuff like that.

Grim Deeds: And I enjoy that but I just wouldn't consider those bands to ever really be favorites because if I'm going to list a favorite thrash band I'm going to take it back to whoever was originally influencing it. That's how it is with punk rock too.

Jason V: Sometimes you have bands that start out imitating it and then they evolve it. Like in the pop punk thing it's obviously it's the Lillingtons 'cause those dudes, they were your total Lookout records kind of singing about high school clone. Then they started doing that fucking cold war paranoia stuff and that conspiracy.

Jason V: Now you see bands that are 100% like Lillingtons worship. It's not a bad thing but I would say the Black Russians. That's a Lillingtons worship record and that's cool but it's like, the Lillingtons evolved enough to where other people started cloning them. Now the Lillingto's sound like a totally different thing.

Jason V: And all the bands that are cloning them hate that thing and it's like, no you don't understand. A band has to evolve or you're just going to be the best clone of someone else.

Grim Deeds: Well I remember I spoke to Kody one time about some of the albums that he made that were like departures. He made the Sack record which is like an awesome party record and stuff. It turned out really great and I remember one of his comments was ... and actually he mentioned this too when he was doing Death by Television because that was very different than Shit Out of Luck. He said, "You get to a point where you've tried something and it didn't work out. So you figure fuck it, what do I have to lose? I might as well just do what I want to do. And when you end up doing that it comes out very sincere."

Grim Deeds: And he's a very talented guy obviously so it's like, yeah that's the best formula right there. Use the best of your talent and make it as sincere and real to you as possible and it's going to just click more.

Jason V: It's weird how though sometimes bands that do that, I've seen it's like when a band does that, then the bands who are almost clones of them or who sort of came about because they were influenced by that band, there's a lot of backlash 'cause they want that band to stay the same.

Grim Deeds: Oh yeah.

Jason V: I've always liked the deviation. Even in everything, in horror movies. That's why I'm Jason V. That's why my mask is part five. That was the weird deviation. Or your Halloween 3's or whatever. I tend to respect bands when they do that. That's what makes me take notice, even if it's not the same style like when somebody pushes out a little bit more.

Grim Deeds: Well yeah. I mean time doesn't stand still and if you want to be trapped in a certain era, like there are bands that try to accomplish that and that's fine, but we're living in the present. And whatever you're putting out now, if it's going to be relevant and it's going to be worth a shit, it has to come from some place that's real. I guess it just depends. People listen to music for all sorts of reasons and have all sorts of different motivation for creative outlets. There are those like us and then there're people who are just more about the community or having some kind of identity. It's very complicated.

Grim Deeds: That's something that I struggle with too because I always just want to do what I want to do. I hope that that's good enough. You never know. 'Cause like you said, there's bands that try different things and sometimes it just sucks.

Jason V: Right.

Grim Deeds: It's like, eh.

Jason V: And community and scene, those are really dangerous, those are very dangerous things to want to align yourself with because it's a shame but I've never not seen a punk rock community or a scene quote/unquote, I've never seen that not turn into Mean Girls. I've never seen that not become a sort of parasitic circle jerk. That's a shame but I've seen behind the curtain of so many and it's like, everybody smiles and says, support, support, support. We want to be part of the scene, we want to support the scene.

Jason V: But behind the curtain it's a lot of back biting, it's a lot of fucking elitism. So I always feel uncomfortable when I start to feel like I'm being accepted by a scene 'cause I don't want to be a part of one.

Grim Deeds: Yeah. Well that's the distinction I think between the motivation to create art and then the tension between that and wanting to have an audience of some kind. It's definitely helpful if people give a shit about what you're doing but in order to keep it balanced, like you said, you can't kind of cow tow to whatever the scene rules are or compromise just to fit into it.

Jason V: Yeah absolutely.

Grim Deeds: That's cool. Well let's take a little detour and talk about some other shit. Like you grew up, I know that you were from Cleveland originally but spent a lot of time growing up in West Virginia. I'm familiar with West Virginia 'cause I'm from Virginia and I just wonder for you, was your experience growing up there something that was uniquely motivating for you to pursue the creative stuff that you're into now?

Grim Deeds: I don't know if many people know a lot about West Virginia but it's not necessarily a place where you're going to find all the nerdy, weird hobby interests. You have to really seek them out 'cause it's not built into the culture at all.

Jason V: No it's not. If anything. I would say growing up in West Virginia helps you find those things that ... It was kind of forcing you to find something that was your own identity because there's nothing. For me, I don't play sports so I'm not going to fit in there. So it's kind of just you discover things on your own and you're a little subculture of one.

Jason V: Now with the internet, I'm sure it's a lot easier but growing up in the '80s and the '90s, it was just like all you have in West Virginia, you can go to your video store and rent horror movies. So that's probably where the Friday the 13th thing comes from. Then you're on your own at the record store trying to find anything that looks cool. So for me until I was 20, I didn't really go to shows.

Jason V: I mean there's no place to really go for shows. Maybe a little bit before my other band played some shows or whatever but for the most part there were no shows. So I didn't have a scene to experience. I didn't have anything like that. It was just listening to what you could find and discovering the Ramones on my own and the Misfits and all that stuff.

Grim Deeds: Were you aware of stuff that was going on, like relatively close by like Washington DC, like hardcore music and stuff or anything?

Jason V: No.

Grim Deeds: 'Cause there were these pockets of very significant music going on near us but I mean, I didn't really get to go up to DC very much. But I was at least aware that it was there. Did you have some kind of inkling that it was within reach?

Jason V: No. Not at all. In my mind I would see local band flyers and any band was like, a famous band to me. So I would see local band flyers and it was just as big of a deal as any other, as if any band was coming around. So to me it was like, I didn't even know anything about a music scene.

Jason V: The first time that I went to a show was a Warped Tour. So I mean that shows you how little there was in the way of any sort of punk rock or metal scene. There was nothing. So with music you just sort of just mimic what you've heard and in my case, not being able to do it really well, it came out sounding like something totally different. If I had the ability, I might have started playing heavy metal or something like that.

Jason V: But for the longest time I was a one man band. I mean, you can't really ... I was stuck with the skill and ability that I had.

Grim Deeds: Is it now sort of weird to have recognition but not local recognition as much? Like I imagine most of your interactions are from people who live in other places, who contact you through the internet or who show support through your social media and stuff. But you walk out your door and you're just yourself and you live in where you live and no one probably has any idea or would care. Is that how it feels?

Jason V: Pretty much.

Grim Deeds: It's kind of like a secret identity sort of thing.

Jason V: It is and it's cool. I mean we were kind of blacklisted from even playing shows in this area with my other band. So I don't even have that history with this scene. So now when we play locally, we have a good turnout but a lot of times it's people from outside of the state or from other towns and stuff.

Jason V: We don't really have a local fame even in our, I guess this little music community here. It's just, most of it is from outside of the state.

Grim Deeds: Would it mean anything to you if you got some kind of local recognition? Like if the local newspaper did a write up and was like, here's a local guy who's accomplished this thing that's cool and unique? Would that mean anything to you or do you feel like you've already earned the recognition where it feels right and you wouldn't care about that?

Jason V: No. It wouldn't mean a whole lot. Just because I've started to realize how much many media outlets can be influenced. I discovered that way early on when I had this terrible, terrible death metal band. It was just a terrible attempt by myself. I sent it to the local college newspaper for them to review it and it was like, Dismember kind of death metal. 

Jason V: But in my biography, I said that we were majorly influenced by the Misfits. Then the review of this death metal band that I had created, and it was just me but I made it seem as if there were four people. When that came out, the reviewer, he said it was totally shitty. Which it really was. But the number one thing that he said that taught me a lesson was he said, "It sounds exactly like the Misfits if they weren't as good."

Jason V: And I remember thinking like, we sound nothing like the Misfits but this guy read my biography and printed that. So to an extent, your level of notoriety determines the narrative. If someone else hears that your band's the hot band, then they're likely to print that because they don't want to seem like the guy that doesn't get it.

Jason V: So I don't know. It's cool to be covered. I still get excited when we're in a magazine or something, something in print. But it's very rare to find something that I feel like is an authentic review. Like take a look at ... choose your magazine. A lot of the reviews anymore are just descriptions of what it is because they don't want to hurt anybody's feelings.

Grim Deeds: Yeah that's true. That's true. Then there's also a sense in which the really sincere reviews that you'll read are just people who are really enthusiastic about it and stuff and that's cool too. At least that's sincere. But I think we live in a very sensitive time right now and I think when you put forth critical opinions on things, people see that as a risk to their own upward mobility in the scene or something.

Jason V: Yeah. I tend to appreciate criticism more, even when we're recording stuff. I want the guy in the room that's going to be like, yo your vocals suck. Do it again. Or that lyric sucks. Even if I don't agree with it, I want somebody that challenges me critically. I don't want to call any names out but I'm thinking of a magazine in particular right now and they do a section on music reviews. It's always just kind of like, hey if you like this then you can check this band out and it's pretty good.

Jason V: But I've never seen them be like, yo this band fucking sucks. When somebody approaches it like that I would really respect their opinion more when they say something doesn't suck. So I try not to do that myself either. If I don't like a band, I try not to share their stuff or support them just because I want people to value my opinion. I don't go to tear somebody else's band down. There's no reason to do that.

Jason V: But I also don't want to be the guy, again who's hey well they're nice people and they're part of the scene so yeah they're a great band. It's like, are they your friends or are they a great band? There is a difference. And I have friends in bands that I don't listen to. But I like the people. Then I have friends in bands that I think are amazing.

Grim Deeds: Yeah. I can relate to that for sure. I've made friends with people who are part of a larger music scene than I'm really able to participate in and I see that there is a difference. When you level up, there's a different layer of weird, social shit that you don't get at like, my level now. It's like, I just tend to talk to people who are like-minded and it's great and everything. But yeah, I've definitely seen some weird shit.

Grim Deeds: People paying lip service and people being strategic in how they compliment and then just ruthless shit talking.

Jason V: Right. I think it sets bands up to fail too because if you convince a band that just everything they're doing is great, then they end up being very frustrated 'cause they feel like ... 'Cause at some point when your band gets out to enough people that aren't in your little scene, if it's not up to par then you're going to be disappointed. It's like setting yourself up to feel ripped off or something.

Jason V: Where I would much rather have a community of people that are just honest about what they like and what they don't like. I can easily be friends with somebody that doesn't like my band.

Grim Deeds: Yeah. Well that's a whole other element. When I go to a show I kind of forget about it. But when you're in the presence of a lot of different people and different personalities that human element comes out. I know that you have a background in psychology and you're educated on the human condition in ways that maybe a lot of fans and people don't realize.

Grim Deeds: But I wonder if that gives you some unique insight into what you do and this passion from a psychological perspective and how you interpret people's reactions and discourse in the music scene. I'd like to hear about that if you have anything to say.

Jason V: Yeah probably. It's not something I always try to turn on because I think if you're a psychotherapist and you don't turn it off when the psychotherapy session ends, then your whole world becomes really complicated. But sort of looking at the interactions of fellow musicians and you and I have talked about the benefits of rational thinking. ROVT, cognitive behavioral therapy, all of that stuff.

Jason V: I also know just based on your music, stuff like Ego Death and all that stuff, like you're really in tune with that. Whereas I think a lot of people don't realize that. That's why I think really to point out what I think is the irrational part of the music scene today is the entitlement.

Jason V: Again, like we talked about working hard and stuff but it's really irrational to think that because I want to make a record that it should be made. I mean and that's what happens is people think that, well because they're a musician and they want to make a record that people should pay for it by crowdfunding. It's like, you're not entitled to that. Nobody's entitled to have a band. You have to work for it.

Jason V: So there's that and then there's people that think they should be famous and they're constantly frustrated because they're not. It's like, we work really hard and sometimes we play for 20 people and I could either be really, really frustrated if I'm thinking irrationally because people don't recognize how hard I worked and boo hoo and all that stuff. Or I could be grateful that I have a band that somebody cares to come to, come to listen to.

Jason V: But I think the irrational beliefs that cause people stress in everyday life also causes them stress when it comes to starting a band, music scene. The Jasons play off of that stuff a lot when it comes to ... We sometimes get labeled "shock rock". I've heard people use that term, which is really silly. Like we're trying to-

Grim Deeds: A bit outdated, yeah.

Jason V: Yeah. yeah. Or like we're trying to be offensive. People think that we're trying to be offensive, but we definitely, I definitely operate under that idea that nobody can influence my emotions. Nobody can offend me, nobody can upset me unless I allow that. That's a big concept that we talk about in psychotherapy.

Grim Deeds: For sure.

Jason V: So I guess in a way knowing that not everybody is operating with that, that there are people out there running around saying like he ruined my day or she ruined my day or she offended me or she did this. I guess we sort of set some traps for people to fall in. Although I have to say I feel like the mental health of mankind is a lot better today than it was in the '80s and '90s because we don't nearly have as many people getting offended over the things that we do as maybe they would have in the past.

Grim Deeds: Yeah, and maybe there's just more resources and tools available now that are out in the open that people can reach out and attempt to use. Whereas it seems like back then, you might have felt more stuck in your situation. A little bit more hopeless and fatalistic or something.

Jason V: Well and I think there's that and then there's also the feeling comfortable in being a victim. We all do, being able to say well it's not my fault. It's their fault. But when you jump out of that, when you dig your way out of that, you start to feel powerful 'cause you're like, wait a minute I control more than I thought I did. I can control my emotions.

Grim Deeds: Well that's cool, man because I see punk and metal and all these things as a great outlet. But a lot of creative people do seem to have this tendency towards depression and anxiety and weird little isms, which could possibly be helped in a therapeutic sense by the music and the creative process. But then you can still, despite that, get hung up on things like what we're talking about. Like the scene bullshit and feeling like people owe you more than what you're getting.

Grim Deeds: One thing that I learned as a result of studying the cognitive behavioral therapy and the stoic perspective on it is no one's obligated to give a shit. If they do, that's a gift and it's something to value and something that's a special treat. It's not an entitlement, like you were saying.

Jason V: Yeah. I mean it's really that's it 'cause if you think that you're entitled to be headlining festivals across United States, you might have this awesome band that never gets to do that. So you just feel like your life sucks and everything's hopeless and you've failed. Or if you're like, the Jasons and maybe from your perspective too, it's like holy shit. Some dude at this show came and he had a Jasons tattoo, holy fuck. That's a huge deal.

Jason V: Regardless of whether or not you ever make a living doing what you're doing, that starts to not matter so much. It has a lot to do with your perspective as to whether or not you're happy in your situation. I mean, if somebody in the fucking Netherlands buys a Grim Deeds record, that's pretty fucking exciting, you know?

Grim Deeds: Feels pretty good. Yeah.

Jason V: It's the same thing with the Jasons. There's some dude that spent $20 to have this record shipped to him. I wouldn't pay that for most bands, so you know.

Grim Deeds: Well that kind of brings me to what might be the concluding series of questions, which is about you personally. I mean, you're a very thoughtful, down to earth guy and I've always felt very lucky that we were able to get in touch because I felt like-

Jason V: Likewise.

Grim Deeds: ... we became friends very naturally. But I would wonder, are people ever astonished by this side of your personality where it's like, yeah this guy's actually very thoughtful, very down to earth person and has a lot of interesting things to say? It's not maybe what they would expect. The Jasons are a punk rock band with a lot of attitude and a lot of gumption and it's fun and it's in your face. But it's not necessarily philosophical. It's not necessarily in tune with the human experience but you are, clearly. So do you ever have fans come at you like, wow I didn't realize you were such a cool guy?

Jason V: Maybe. They never say it to me. I think we always ... We kind of turn off the Jasons ... Me and 3D have always had that approach that before and during the show if you come up and talk to us, you're going to talk to Jason V. But afterwards if you stick around, then you meet the, I guess the more thoughtful, philosophical, kind, gentlemen that we are.

Jason V: But I don't know. I've never had anyone say it was surprising but I have had 3D tell me that people told him that they were nervous to talk to me. They were afraid to come up and approach me or whatever. But I mean I guess when you're wearing a hockey mask and it's a dark club you can kind of get this idea. But yeah. I don't know.

Jason V: I feel like anybody who can just read between the lines a little bit might understand that we're not these sort of, I don't know, negative asshole characters. 'Cause our music doesn't really have that. If you really read into it just a little bit, I'm not working out any demons in my lyrics. I mean there's nothing behind that. There's plenty of existential crisis and demons and all of this stuff but that's not really anything that goes into my songs other than maybe an ax to grind with sycophants or whatever.

Jason V: But I don't know. I've met lyricists that I was really nervous to talk to but for me it's always people that seem to be really working out some shit in the music. Whereas I don't know, I can't imagine that someone doesn't see the Jasons as a sort of a tongue in cheek, fun sort of band where you go with the intent of being called an asshole or having one of the Jasons fucking give you the finger.

Jason V: I can't imagine somebody doing that and taking that as being the real person. But I guess some people might.

Grim Deeds: Well there's a kind of a pro wrestling aspect to the show that you guys put on and that in the end is intended to be fun and affirming and bring people together. And everybody at the end of the day goes home happy.

Jason V: Yeah it should be. It should definitely be getting to meet your favorite bad guy wrestler. Not that everything we say is not something that we truly believe, like that Scene Police song that you were part of. I mean, 100% that's how I feel about things but again, it's not about me out there trying to hit people over the head with it. It's just kind of how we feel about it.

Grim Deeds: Yeah. I feel like you guys weave in the satire in a way that's a little more subtle and it becomes part of the lore and it becomes part of the personality of the band. But there are insights in there that you can find if you're looking for them.

Jason V: I've had at the same show, we finished up and somebody came up to me and they said, he said, "Man I think it's so cool that you guys are telling it how it is and fuck everybody." He was really excited and I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, thanks, thanks, you know.

Jason V: Then the next person came up to me and said, "Man I think it's so great how you guys have all that humor and all that satire that you put in it." It was like these two people had two completely different experiences. I just went ahead and let both people think that that was true. I don't really want people to know 100% what is satire and what is not.

Jason V: People always get up in arms about the "I support Ben Weasel and every punch he threw" line, you know? And I've had people message me and be like, "Are you advocating beating up women? Are you doing this?" I usually try not to answer them really because I don't really want to take a stance on those things.

Jason V: Although I will say when it comes to that, I don't really consider what Ben Weasel did as an act against women. I think that was an act that divided the punk rock scene and that's what I'm really referring to, which is like there are people that want to just find the villain and condemn the villain and damn them to hell forever. But again, if we go back to cognitive behavioral therapy or rational emotive behavioral therapy, this idea that things like evil and horrible and terrible, like people are not those things.

Jason V: People make decisions and people do things that may be bad decisions but that doesn't mean they're evil people. And honestly I don't believe that there are evil people in the world.

Grim Deeds: Oh yeah. I agree with you, man. Something that's troubling but also fascinating about the human experience is we have all the capacity to be very good or very bad. It just depends on us and our environment and how we respond to it. You can go pretty deep with all that but I hear you.

Grim Deeds: I think what I hope to do in our interview is kind of give people a sense of this side of you as more sort of a intellectual, thoughtful, reflective side. Because I have found really that with a lot of musicians, even the ones that are playing three chord punk, there's this desire to reflect and self reflect and see the world from a deeper and clearer perspective if possible.

Jason V: Yeah. Even in some of the silliest music.

Grim Deeds: Oh yeah.

Jason V: I think you can find that a lot in the, especially in punk rock because I think there are a lot of people that maybe don't have the musical ability to do something really complex on an instrument. But you can find a lot of good lyricists, and a lot of real clever lyricists.

Grim Deeds: That's cool, man. Well hey, as we wrap up, I want to say thanks for doing this and sorry it took so long.

Jason V: No that's okay man.

Grim Deeds: But you guys are contributing something significant and I just hope that you'll continue with this trajectory. It seems like you've got more momentum now even than before and it keeps kind of ramping up with each new milestone. It's motivating to me and inspiring too. Congratulations on all that you've accomplished with the Jasons and with all your other projects too.

Grim Deeds: It's like, you have to take it all as a whole and use it for future motivation.

Jason V: Yeah. I appreciate it, man. Thanks for talking to me about it. I've enjoyed talking to you just about things in general, all of our discussions about the nature of life and the human condition. That's also why I enjoy Grim Deeds. I really do. I enjoy the fact that you're the avatar of human misery.

Grim Deeds: Thanks man.

Jason V: You should do a Grim Deeds interview with Grim Deeds.

Grim Deeds: Yeah the thought has occurred to me.

Jason V: You should.

Grim Deeds: I might do that, interview number 100 or something.

Jason V: Yeah. Yeah.

Grim Deeds: Cool. Well I'm just going to press stop.