WESTERN ADDICTION
(An interview with my friend Jason Hall)
Cognicide and Tremulous were both very distinct records, both in terms of their vibes and urgency. They were also released 12 years apart, whereas Frail Bray is being released only 3 years later. What's different this time, and how do you see this new album in relation to the others?
One item that is different this time is a sense of urgency. We are very lucky to be able to make music and be on a decent label and I know that can’t last forever. I keep thinking that each record might be the last but I really like making songs and trying to unlock the grand mysteries of songwriting. Tremulous and Frail Bray are different from Cognicide in the sense that I tried to focus on songwriting and melody a bit more. When I wrote Cognicide I didn’t know anything about making songs. I’ve learned a few tricks since then but you are always on this never ending quest to capture that special feeling.
Western Addiction has, to me, always been an anomaly on the Fat roster. Not only do you stand apart from most other bands in terms of style and approach, but even within the context of hardcore music and punk rock in general you seem to stand apart, go your own way, etc. Would you agree, and if so why?
I very much agree. Sadly, we seem to never fit in. We are in this netherworld between punk, modern hardcore and metal. The pop-punk people don’t think we are melodic enough and the heavy music people don’t really give us a chance, that is, until they see us. We played a show with Cult Leader and Vermin Womb and it went really well though and it kind of proved the theory. I would love to be like Motorhead where the punks love us and so do the rockers and the metalheads. I also think our lyrics are quite different. I love lyrics and when I listen to someone like Morrissey, the song content is so interesting and odd and I love it. I can’t really make “red hot baby tonight” or “F the government” songs and I think a lot of people really like those topics. It’s just not authentic to who I am.
WA is not a band that tours constantly and isn't on the schedule you might expect from other Fat bands in terms of touring, recording, promoting, etc. I'm also aware that all band members work full time jobs, have family obligations, etc. And yet the band not only endures, but does so without a doubt. How are you guys able to pull this off?
We do have a pretty strange set up. Something that happened to me early on, in my twenties, is that I had a family and I think I discovered some of the joys that take most people years to discover. The one thing that will cancel any show is either sickness or a “family emergency.” Family is pretty important and when everything goes downhill, that’s all you really have. One by one, all of my rocker friends who became dads have apologized to me and said, “I’m sorry I didn’t understand why you couldn’t hang out and party, I get it now.” I’m also kind of a really odd person in that I really like working on the band. I find it to be a complete joy. I don’t really watch TV or do much “leisure.” Instead, I work on the band every night. I know that not touring has hurt us a bit but we have gotten to do some pretty incredible things just by working really hard in the odd hours between jobs and families. We’ve been to Japan twice, toured Europe, been in a bus, played with some of our all-time favorite bands, etc. and to me, that has been a dream. I watch all of these band documentaries and most of the members are absolutely miserable and I just don’t understand it. Music is a gift and you should treat it like a gift.
I know all of you guys, and consider each of you to be a music connoisseur in your own right. You're all well-versed in many style of music and each listen to a broad spectrum of styles. You in particular love extremely nihilistic metal. How did the band arrive at a sound that is both cohesive and consistent while pulling from so many different experiences and tastes musically?
We do like many different styles of music but where we converge is the band. There is something about aggressive music that resonates with all of us. We run the band like a democracy, which is incredibly draining but one thing it produces is that when you have five people say, “YES! I like it!” then you really have something. I also like to learn from different genres and incorporate it into the band. “Lurchers” is a country western song if you really listen. In “Rose’s Hammer I” there is a straight up black metal, tremolo picking section. I believe that a good song is a good song is a good song and the genre doesn’t matter as long as you’ve got good bones. I love the atmospherics and sound-scaping of black metal as well and I try to incorporate that. I also love Simon and Garfunkel and their command of songwriting. It all gets thrown into the pot.
My blog mainly caters to fans of pop punk, particularly the kind influenced by Kody's songwriting. You're a friend of Kody's and I've always wanted to ask you what you thought of the Stella Sapiente record, and also how did it go over at the Fat office once it was unveiled? Such a different sound for many fans to contend with, but also an album with depth and atmosphere like no other Lillingtons record. What are your thoughts? And how would you sum up Kody's talent? (By the way Chad Williams once referred to Stella as "Kody's masterpiece", and I agree.)
I really like Kody. He’s a kind man and I always look forward to seeing him. I enjoy his pop-punk songwriting very much but he is extremely versed in metal. I was interested in hearing the new dimension it added to the band and I kind of like their stage props. I like that they did small versions of it, almost in a Spinal Tap kind of way. I love the Ramones so I’m a sucker for what he does. I wasn’t working at Fat when the record came in but as a fan, I was intrigued. You can’t make the same record forever, so I applaud their evolution.
Something we touched on in a prior interview (for a secret metal society I dare not name here) is your style of performance, which is really something to behold. Whereas many hardcore bands go for a very "aggro" stage presence, yours is incredibly intense yet somehow inclusive. You connect very well with the audience and provide a sense of danger without being reckless (save for walking on a few bar tables and such). Has this always been a natural inclination for you? It's an interesting juxtaposition from your very friendly and down to earth personality.
Ha ha, I’m glad you notice. What’s funny is that the first time I had to do a show without playing guitar, I didn’t know what to do with my body. I asked the guys, “Ok, so what do I do with my hands and body?” It was kind of like the first time Ricky Bobby got interviewed and he keeps touching the mic. I don't really have any “rock moves” but I do want the shows to be exciting. I feel it is my job to try to be entertaining and when people look bored, I try to make it interesting. The goal is very much for it to be “wild, but fun.” I really don’t want to hurt anyone and I’d feel terrible if I did. I want there to be a slight sense of danger and intensity but somewhat controlled. I actually have a hard time staying in character because it’s really fun and I end up cracking up. Sometimes you look tough, sometimes you end up looking silly. I fell into a trashcan at Slim’s one time and that was humbling. I don’t like when singers are trying to be too tough. I guess I just go for the excitement and try to leave out any scary aggression. I guess this is a natural inclination because this is just what “comes out.” I’m pretty shy and quiet in real life and I’ve never been into acting and I have no desire to “be on stage” or “get applause” so I haven’t figured out where this comes from. I just try my best to not bore people.
Getting back to the reality of you being a full-time professional and family man, has your music life remained something that you're able to balance well with your so-called adult life? The question of identity is something I've considered when I think of you. You don't wear band shirts, you dress in a fairly conservative manner - nothing about you seems particularly alienating and yet you are extremely passionate about very extreme forms of art and expression. What are your feelings about this, and how has it impacted your own sense of self-identity? I tend to struggle with it myself.
I have been able to balance the worlds but it’s kind of like living a double life. Sometimes I’m professional work me, sometimes I’m rock and roll me and sometimes I’m a dad at the playground. I just do all my band work in the cracks when other people are hanging out or watching TV. I have a pretty strange, structured schedule for how I work on the band. I spend a minimum of one hour a night, no matter what night it is, and I try to get something done whether that is making songs or the admin of being in a band. As you know, it’s really hard to translate what you do in the normal world, so I usually just keep it a secret. It just doesn’t translate to normal people. They envision bands as so glamorous, but when most people see the reality, they don’t last. You have to REALLY love it to do it. Do you want to be a grown man sitting in the crappiest little room before you go on? Do you want to sleep under a sink in a hotel room with towels as your blanket? Most people don’t. It’s a TON of work, but I’m a restless person and I like it. I’ve also never really been a “type” of person. I was never a skater, never a “punker,” etc., etc. I just really love music and bands. I listen to music from 7am to 11pm, every single day. Sometimes I wish I had a cool identity, but, like the band, I’m just in this strange in-between world.
Do you feel that there is a specific fan base that you're reaching with each WA effort? How has the landscape changed since you guys started with regard to holding people's attention, getting fans to engage, etc.? Is it somewhat frustrating to operate in such an over-saturated climate of constant content? Do you feel that music fans' expectations and/or standards have been impacted by it?
That is actually something I wish would happen. I wish we could “find our people.” I see other bands like ours that have “people” but I am hoping we can appeal to someone that likes heavier music. If the modern hardcore and metal bands would just give us a shot, I think it could work. I’m thinking of bands like Wolfbrigade, Power Trip, Converge, etc. I feel that’s our world but we haven’t been let in yet.
It’s incredibly saturated right now. This time around, it’s been very hard to get shows. Sometimes I wish someone would say, “I don’t like your band and I don’t think your music is good.” This never happens though but we also don’t get the shows either. I feel it’s this gigantic cosmic chance if you get a show and it has nothing to do with whether your band or songs are good. I know we’re not the Beatles but I also know that we aren’t the worst band in the world, at least I hope we aren’t. And, if you ever question this phenomenon, you are seen as complaining. Yes, we are lucky, but yes, I want to play some good shows with good bands.
How has your relationship with Fat Wreck Chords evolved since Cognicide was released? It's apparent that the label has always backed you guys, and yet there've been many changes. You and Chad are both former employees, too - what's the vibe and how do you feel about where WA stands now going into this album's release?
Fat is my family. I have very close relationships with several people that work there. I feel incredibly lucky that they put out our records. We are a small band, but we get great service because these people are my lifetime friends. Sometimes we talk about music, sometimes we talk about life, kids, etc. I know that we aren’t the style of band they usually put out, but I wouldn’t trade it for anything. I could call the label at any hour of the day, any day, and someone would help me. They are honest and they pay bands, every time.
We once had a conversation about our mutual late friend David Jones in which you cited him as a person who really "gets" songwriting in ways that you can relate to and appreciate on a higher level. How would you describe David as a songwriter? I was fortunate to witness his process for what ended up being the last Enemy You recordings, and throughout my friendship with him saw him as a very thoughtful and intentional kind of songwriter who was patient and methodical with his craft. I'm interested to hear your own insights into his songwriting, as well as into his personality. Hard to believe it's been 5 years since he passed.
I have some strange, unpopular ideas about songwriting and what makes a song special. I know that people think they can identify a “good song” but I feel there are some VERY specific elements that go into a “good” song. I really love talking about this but most people find it irritating. However, there are a handful of people on the planet that really understand these elements, and Dave was one of them. I’m drawn to weird people that are tapped into this higher consciousness. If you want proof, listen to “Adios to You,” which was Dave’s last song. I heard it for the first time and I thought, “Damn, he did it.” He mastered vocal melody, which I think is the magic in a great song. As for his personality, he was strange in the best way and heartfelt at the same time, which I am completely down with. I can forgive some strange behavior if the person is authentic. The last time I saw Dave, he was in the crowd having a good time and then I could see the intensity in his eyes, and then he was gone. He didn’t stick around for the rest of the show, but that’s ok, because I know him and I know he needed to leave to feel comfortable. I can never fault someone that has intense anxiety. He was a good man. I admire good men and women.
On a personal note, I want to say that you've always been a very kind person to me and have related in ways that I consider to be rare and valuable as a friend and fellow songwriter. Any closing words?
Ha ha, that is very kind of you to say and I appreciate it and I feel the same about you. It is very hard to make friends as an adult so I’m incredibly thankful for the people that truly understand me as a human. I love having rocker friends and you are a friend, and a rocker. I really want to be a normal man, and I feel shame that I’m not, so It’s very comforting to know other adult men who really love music and would live and die for it. Thank you, man.
