ONLY THE BEAST TOO

ONLY THE BEAST TOO

This month I released my 15th full-length Grim Deeds album, which is a milestone of sorts. This particular release is also special and unique in many ways, so to commemorate the occasion I offer the following details and background stories on the album and its songs:

Background: Cederick Forsberg, aka Ced, is a Swedish metal musician with whom I've collaborated on various projects albums for nearly the last decade. He's incredibly talented and prolific, having self-recorded the majority of his vast discography, and more info about him can be found here: 

https://www.metal-archives.com/artists/Ced/319341

Tommaso Eppesteingher is the talented Italian artist, painter, and cartoonist who generously lent his time to create the cover art for the album. Special thanks are owed to Matt Bennett who reached out to him on my behalf to make this possible. Tommaso's work is exceptional and more info about him can be found here: 

https://www.instagram.com/tommyeppes/?hl=en

Only the Beast Too is the follow up to 2017's Only the Beast, which was the first Grim Deeds album to feature Ced's playing and production. I consider this pair of releases to be "my" best work by virtue of Ced's involvement. His musicianship and skill set is on a much higher level than my own, so I feel very lucky for every chance I've gotten to collaborate with him. HAILS Ced!

Both Beast albums feature previously recorded songs redone "properly" with added arrangements and higher quality production than the rest of my discography. My hope is that I'll be able to continue working with Ced to produce more installments as more songs pile up in the future. In fact, I've already made a list of songs for a third volume.

Songs:

1) Musicians Are the Worst People in the World

While recording the album, Ced asked if he could contribute a song, and of course I eagerly accepted his offer. The results speak for themselves - here we have a metal master proving that he is capable of writing great pop punk songs! The intro was also his idea, and makes for a great album opener. Kody Templeman reached out to compliment this one, which is probably the best compliment a pop punk songwriter could hope for. Ced earned it on his first attempt!

2) Ego Death

This song originally appeared on the 2019 album R4RE, and was written at a time when I was still suffering from depression. The concept of the song stemmed from a lot of self-reflection and questioning my intentions - both as an artist and as a person. I was beginning to realize that my ego could be a source of my suffering, and one that I could address by refocusing and adjusting my mindset. "Can't keep living like an asshole/I've at least got to try" refers to this realization, but it would be months before I would finally begin researching tools and strategies that would later prove helpful in overcoming this very dark period.

3) Ode to Oderus

Originally released in 2015 on the album Psychologically Displaced, this song is a sincere tribute to the late, great Dave Brokie (aka Oderus Urungus) of GWAR. Being a fan, I took the opportunity to weave in many references to the lore of GWAR, features of his character, other members, album titles, etc. Most of it probably didn't register, but those who know will appreciate the effort. I knew that I'd someday want to re-record it with a full band sound, so I'm glad to have checked that one off the list. 

4) I Can't Listen to NOFX

This song first came out on my self-released 2016 album Might As Well, and it's fitting since the song encompasses that ethos. I originally wrote the song as an exercise to see if I was capable of writing like NOFX, but also knew it would be written as a diss song based on a negative experience I had years prior after meeting Fat Mike at a show. There's a unique humiliation and shame earned from attempting but failing to hit it off with a person one clearly admires. My experience was no different, so I decided to channel that feeling into a lyrical critique of his career trajectory and what I saw then as his failings as a member of the punk community. I was also saddened to realize that my desire to connect with him did not match well with the reality of our very different backgrounds and lifestyles. At least I went for it.

5) Hoarder

I was fascinated and horrified by the concept of a hoarder, which I understood as being someone who lives in squalor surrounded on all sides by heaps of junk and garbage. I found it all to be very tragic, but the psychological element disturbed me. Compulsive human behavior interests me, and I've struggled with my own compulsions since childhood so it felt like a natural topic to write about. Central to the theme is the idea that the hoarders themselves are somehow undeserving of compassion, and are to be treated like the very garbage they compulsively collect. "Then they buried my corpse in a junkyard of deceased/It's a fitting conclusion at least!"

6) The Braindead Masses

First featured on the 2016 album HAILS! (also my debut on OUTLOUD! Records), this song was written by Kody Templeman specifically for Grim Deeds. Kody and I are close friends, and we'd collaborated previously on Deeds songs but never in this way. He wrote everything and I sang it. He wrote it with my style in mind and it shows, but it's also a classic Kody song. I'm extremely grateful that he did it, and I knew I should eventually re-record it because I did a terrible job mixing the original version. I always wear my Kody-influences loudly and proudly, and this song certainly represents a proud moment for me. He's still and always will be the best.

7) Until You Die

From yet another 2016 release (If the Shoe Fits), this is one of my favorites that I've written and I always wanted to re-recorded it with a full band sound. The original is fine, but there's no substitute for real drums in a punk rock song, and Ced handled business like a pro. The style of this song leans heavily towards my strong Enemy You influence and admiration of David Jones' style of songwriting. He was an expert at distilling everything I loved about Bad Religion and the more "snotty" style of Vindictives and Screeching Weasel. As I recall, this one was written quickly and with few revisions. The lyrical themes explore the questionable importance of our legacy as mortals, and the general impermanence of our lives. I also wanted to shed light on what I see as our shared tendency to honor those who've passed away in ways that are self-serving.

8) Child of the Millenium
Besides not realizing that millennium is misspelled in the title until just now, I'd say this song was a successful attempt to ape David Jones' style of songwriting for Enemy You (David definitely would have spellchecked his title). The riffs and dynamics of this song are a direct homage to Enemy You, and the lyrical themes are also meant to evoke DJ's familiar tone of energy mixed with melancholy and angst. The lyrics outline what I consider to be the social woes of today's youth, including an disconnect between process and outcome - namely the idea that success is something owed and not earned. Being stuck somewhere in between Generations X and Y, I am dangerously close to what my students might call a "Boomer", and do find it increasingly difficult to relate to what "the kids" are into as time passes. Still, there's a glint of rebellious hope woven into the song that seeks to overcome these woes by any means necessary.

9) Dead Inside
This song first appeared on the 2017 double album DO NOT MOCK SATAN!, and is also my second-favorite Grim Deeds song after "Bachelor of Arts". I wrote it at a time when my depression was real and serious, but still wanted to inject a bit of humor into it and make it as catchy as possible. That formula of bubblegum mixed with morose topics has become my trademark. This tune captures it better than any other I can think of. The vocal harmonies feature throughout each verse but not in the pre-chorus, which is opposite of my typical writing style. The song length is also 1:20, which is what I consider to be ideal for a Grim Deeds song. Nothing extra but nothing lacking, or so I would claim.

10) Slave
This song is a rarity by virtue of its inclusion on the 2016 digita-only release B-Sides from Hades. I wrote it while my wife was still pregnant, and I was experiencing acute anxiety in anticipation of my impending fatherhood. My high stress levels combined with a general feeling of being trapped due to living with my in-laws, and the result is a song that my best friend claims is my darkest to date. I like the song, though. It definitely deserved the "Ced treatment" since skate punk with a drum machine sounds very lame. Unsurprisingly, he killed it! When I listen now, those feelings from back then seem very distant and far removed from my relative contentment in the present, and my deep gratitude for my family and life. Go figure!

11) Glenn the Heavy Metal Custodian
Another gem from the DO NOT MOCK SATAN! album, this song is based on an entirely real individual I had the pleasure of working with for 9 years at the Bay Area middle school where I began my teaching career. Glenn grew up in the Tenderloin in SF and has led a gnarly life, yet remains one of the nicest and most upbeat people I've ever met. The students at the school really did call him "Jesus", and he would crack me up with impressions of the principal doing lines of coke off a desk before starting a pit. "It's exhilarating!" One time he did it mere seconds before the boss man entered the teacher's lounge where we were cracking up at his performance. Things got pretty awkward at that moment! Glenn still works there, too, as he has since 1993. And he's still the coolest janitor of all!

12) Darkness Inside
One of the more recent songs on the album, this one came out on 2019's REVEAL and was written while riding my bike to work. I end up writing a lot of songs while riding my bike, such that I've taken to riding with my acoustic guitar strapped to my back with my iPhone voice memo ready to record anything that pops into my head. The song is a nod to my Fat Wreck/Epitaph roots, and attempts to capture the Grim Deeds spirit via the aesthetics of early Offspring and Bad Religion. While it's not my proudest moment, it's still solid enough to get Ced's blessing and he did so while remaining faithful to the original. I think it's a good fit for the album.

13) Underground
One of the most special memories I have of my friendship with David Jones are the times he shared song demos with me, something I knew was an extremely rare privilege. He was the opposite of me in the sense that he was very reluctant to share incomplete songs and unofficial recordings. Still, I was gifted the chance to witness his process firsthand, and ended up with a few of his demos in my inbox that I'd forgotten about until after his death. I recall finding a version of this song that had only his guitar tracks and a programmed guide beat, which I realized I could add vocals to and release. Kody played bass and we made it happen, which felt right and we were both pretty stoked on the results. That version of the song is on HAILS!, but I always wanted to do it justice by re-recording it with the full band sound. Again, Ced allowed me to realize this goal and now I finally have a version that I think would meet DJ's expectations. I'm sure he'd still give me shit for not letting him revise and finish it, but he knew how impulsive I am.

14) When I Die
Another from HAILS!, this song always felt special to me though few ever bring it up. Unlike a lot of my death-oriented songs, this one is more reflective and isn't rooted in negativity. The great unknown awaits us all, and we have an unknown yet definitely limited amount of time to do something meaningful. I tend to spend a lot of time thinking about creativity and the desire to write songs. I read interviews with songwriters and constantly maintain a working list of goals for whatever's next. It keeps me going and I'm grateful to have this drive, despite the lack of measurable value my work generates. I'm lucky to have gained some recognition, but in the end I only care if my friends like it. Like sharing a good story or a stupid joke, this is the thing I can offer and feel proud of in the presence of those who I care about the most. Thanks for being part of it! HAILS!

THE DUMMY ROOM

NATE DEML and JODY HAVENOT

Grim Deeds:
This is the exclusive Grim Deeds interview with you. I'm flipping the scripts today on Nate and Jody and I'm going to interview them. Let's go for it.

Nate:
Thrilled to be here.

Jody:
Yeah.

Grim Deeds:
I first want to say congratulations on the show. It is definitely a success. It is something that I look forward to each week. It's incredible that you guys have kept the momentum going and as you've kept it going, you've had awesome guests every week, new surprises. Sometimes, ones that I can't even believe. The most recent one, CJ Ramone.

Grim Deeds:
Now, that you've had Ramone on the show, that's a whole another level. Plus, you've had pretty much all my favorite songwriters so far. You guys do a great job. When you began, I want to know how did you decide to go with the podcast because no one else was doing that at the time and you guys obviously knew what you were doing because from the beginning it has always sounded proper. You had an interest song, you had a format on your tape, you have these different segments that are your trademark and it's very well produced.

Grim Deeds:
I just want to know what was the original idea? How did you guys collaborate to make it happen?

Jody:
Man, thanks for all the kind words Grim.

Nate:
Yeah.

Jody:
It's very nice of you to say those sorts of things about our stupid little show. I have been doing different podcasts for a while. I always wanted to do a punk rock podcast like The Dummy Room. I had a few false starts. I had a show for a little while called Rock and Roll Radio which is basically the same thing.

Jody:
It's just I could never find that perfect co-host, you know what I mean? I even did like four or five episodes with my girlfriend, you know what I mean? Just because she's the only one that really knew what I was talking about. I eventually met Nate in the weirdest of situations wouldn't you say, Nate?

Nate:
Yeah. Jody, as far as all the technical stuff, all the audio stuff, he was a seasoned, semi-professional. That's all on him. Yeah, after we met, we just started talking about it. I knew nothing about podcasts. I didn't listen to podcasts other than his. I didn't really even ever want to do one but he just asked and it seemed like I didn't really even care that it was a podcast. It just seemed like it was going to be fun just to talk to him about cool bands and punk rock and shit.

Grim Deeds:
Yeah.

Jody:
It totally is. Man, I remember the day that I asked you because we've been on the phone for like an hour chatting like school girls about Jagger Holly or the fucking Windowsill.

Nate:
Yeah.

Jody:
Same shit, different day. I'm like, "You know what dude, you should just be my cohost and we should fucking do this." Because he knows everything. We're like basically the same person, you know what I mean? We grew up in the same way, listen to the same bands. It was just like, fuck it, let's do it. Now, we have some show and it's been a lot of fun, man.

Grim Deeds:
Yeah. It's just seeing that you had the podcast before but having Nate there to playoff of, I think you guys, the way you interact, it's very natural and the chemistry is good. You both have good voices that each are kind of unique and fun to listen to. Plus, you were saying, you both know your stuff. You're both very well versed in our little bubble of pop punk. It comes across in a very sincere way. It's like I'm a fan, you guys are fans and it's exciting to listen to that because in my daily life, I don't get to talk about pop punk music with anybody. No one cares.

Jody:
Right.

Grim Deeds:
There are people that do. We have a scene and I think the community has become more vibrant probably in the past decade because of people like you guys reaching out and forming a community. It's pretty cool.

Jody:
Yeah. It's been really fun, man. That's the bottom line for me is just like I get to have my little poker night out with the guys but it's just me sitting here on my laptop talking to Nate usually. Very cool guests that we grew up basically worshiping, you know what I mean?

Grim Deeds:
Yeah.

Jody:
It's been really fun.

Grim Deeds:
Are you guys in different locations? Nate, you're in La Crosse, right?

Jody:
Yeah.

Nate:
Yup. La Crosse, Wisconsin.

Grim Deeds:
Jody, where are you?

Jody:
I'm in the suburbs of St. Louis.

Grim Deeds:
Okay. So you're just remotely communicating every time you do an episode?

Jody:
Yeah.

Grim Deeds:
It's pretty interesting, because I noticed when you guys start episodes, you check in with each other. You kind of see how it's going but it almost comes across like you guys are just neighbors down the street like coming over for a beer, hanging out.

Jody:
That's basically how we would look at it. Yeah. It's just like every week I know I'm going to get to talk to my buddy about some pop punk shit. It's always fun. Over the years, I think that we have become better friends as we've been going with this, you know what I mean? It's been pretty cool.

Grim Deeds:
How often do you guys get together in person?

Jody:
Dude, like never. Actually, we have something in the works coming up pretty soon.

Nate:
Yeah. We are going to meet in the spring. We're going to go to a Garden Gnome Convention.

Jody:
Yeah, by Moline, right?

Nate:
Moline, the Quad Cities.

Jody:
Yeah. It's strange because Amber, my partner and Nate's wife, they're both like, "We're into Garden Gnomes."

Nate:
They're super in the Garden Gnomes.

Jody:
Can you believe that? For us, it's just like I've went to one before and I was just basically hiding out in the car all day, getting stoned and listening to my iPod because it's unbearable. Since Nate is going and she wants to go and we're going to finally meet up at the Garden Gnome Convention in Moline.

Nate:
Dude, we have gnome names.

Jody:
We even have gnome names, dude.

Nate:
Tell them your name, Jody.

Jody:
Mine is Pudding Pickle Pants.

Nate:
I am a Buddy Toe-bells.

Jody:
Buddy Toe-bells.

Nate:
There's like the Gnome Society.

Jody:
There's all this weird shit. I don't know how much you know about gnomes, Grim Deeds but they have all these strange names. There's all kinds of strange shit in that community.

Nate:
We're going to meet.

Grim Deeds:
It's a whole scene and your wives are hooked on it?

Jody:
Yeah, basically.

Nate:
Pretty much.

Jody:
Nate and I are going to meet at a gnome convention.

Grim Deeds:
What you've proven is that both of you are very smart husbands, because rather than planning a thing where you guys go to like a pop punk festival or something that they wouldn't be into, you've chosen to meet at a place that they're mutually stoked on and they can hangout so then you guys can just freely hangout and it's no guilt.

Jody:
Exactly. I think I'm going to bring a mini recorder and we're going to do some live recording from the gnome con.

Nate:
That would be cool. We should do that.

Jody:
Maybe, we might even meet Dipple Sprocket or Dippy Tikklekins. You never know.

Grim Deeds:
Oh, my god, you guys.

Nate:
Yeah. That's happening in the spring. I'm not sure the exact dates on that.

Jody:
What would Grim Deeds' gnome name be, Nate?

Nate:
Grim Deeds? When were you're born?

Grim Deeds:
1980.

Nate:
What month were you born in?

Grim Deeds:
May. I'm a Taurus.

Nate:
You are Merry Peppermint.

Jody:
Merry Peppermint.

Nate:
Yeah.

Jody:
Like M-E-R-R-Y?

Nate:
Like Merry Christmas, merry. Yeah.

Jody:
Okay.

Nate:
That's going to be a song title, I guess.

Jody:
Merry Peppermint.

Nate:
There you go.

Jody:
That's a nice one.

Nate:
Yeah. Back to the thing, I look at the podcast as I just get to talk to Jody every week.

Jody:
It's nothing but fun for us, man. Like you said, it's just like other guys go out and play poker or shoot a deer or fucking join a pottery class. I don't know what the fuck they do but I sit home and just talk to this dude and record it.

Grim Deeds:
Nice.

Nate:
Sometimes, if we have a guest on. Sometimes, it's a pain in the ass just because you don't know if they're going to show up. You don't know how it's going to sound. Sometimes, I just prefer, we just do a top 11 whatever together. It's just me and him and we just shoot the shit for, I don't know, a couple of hours.

Jody:
Yeah.

Grim Deeds:
Yeah. Those are good episodes too because you always have a cool theme and your playlists are good and the conversations are good. I think like you said, it's nice to give yourself a break from the pressure of having a guest on because all the schedules that have to be lining up and technology has to work and ...

Jody:
Right.

Grim Deeds:
... people show up and all that.

Nate:
Yup.

Jody:
You know how it is. You've done a lot of really cool interviews yourself and you know what goes into coordinating and schedules and still trying to make time for family and all that.

Grim Deeds:
To do anything as an adult, anything really besides what you're required to do, it takes quite a bit of effort. I can imagine just even doing it is an achievement but you guys do it well.

Jody:
Thank you.

Grim Deeds:
I know that you draw inspiration from your past experience for doing podcasts and stuff. How was your approach to this one different and how did you want to tailor it specifically to serve our pop punk bubble?

Nate:
When it comes to music, Jody and I are pretty much the same guy. I think it was just a natural thing that this show would be almost entirely about pop punk or Ramones core, that genre. I'm pretty sure that there's a hundred other podcasts about punk rock but we needed one that was for us like bands like The Queers and Jagger Holly and the Jetty Boys.

Nate:
There wasn't a podcast that was devoted to these bands. These are the bands that we listen to. We just made one. I've been asked over the past year like will we ever do an episode about a certain band and some of them yeah but then Lagwagon probably not because I don't like Lagwagon. There's other podcasts about that. For me, that's what I love. The Queers and Screeching Weasel and there isn't a show about that stuff.

Jody:
Now, there is.

Grim Deeds:
I'll also say that prior to The Dummy Room, there weren't that many communities dedicated to it that I felt were that cool, you know what I mean? When I listen to the show, it's almost like hanging out with buddies because it's like the like-mindedness really comes across. You really know your stuff and you have good tastes. Despite what Ben Weasel might have said, you guys have good taste. That's awesome.

Grim Deeds:
A follow up to that question is, now, that you're this far in, what episode number will this be like?

Nate:
88.

Grim Deeds:
88. See, you're getting almost a hundred episode and you guys have been very humble about it so far. It's made waves across the scene I think and people pay attention to it. I'm sure you've gotten a lot more requests for people who want to be guests on the show compared to when you started. There are a lot more people are listening to the show.

Grim Deeds:
How does it feel now because you have this platform now and it's something that's sought after, it's something that people do listen to, I would say, regularly, maybe even religiously. It's breathed new life into the scene at a good time too because I feel like there are a lot of new labels that have popped up in the last 5, 10 years and a lot of good bands that are playing this specific style. You guys have really seized the moment. How does it feel to have this kind of platform and influence now?

Jody:
I don't think we have all kinds of influence or anything. I think it's just people like Nate was saying, there's just wasn't a podcast that talked about this kind of shit. People just listen to it because of that. I don't think we have much influence or any kind of things like that. I am kind of stoked that people do listen though because when we first started for the first couple of weeks it was like 50 people were listening maybe if we were lucky.

Nate:
Yeah.

Jody:
We've been able to build it up a little bit, which is nice because when you do putting in all this fucking time, somebody will listen. You know what I'm saying. At the end of the day, I'm pretty sure if we stopped the show tomorrow, I'd still be talking to Nate once a week about this stuff on the phone just because it's really fun to talk about the music that you love.

Grim Deeds:
Like I said, you guys are very humble about it but you get some serious heavy hitters on the show. You've got great guests and to have an episode, I had an episode, I'm very proud of that. It's like I would compare it to having an article in Jersey Beat or like back in the day having a review in Maximumrocknroll. It's almost like a status thing. Your brand, I think it's a very, I don't know, at this point it's very recognizable and you guys have merged and you have logos and you have your theme song. You guys have done a good job and I'm proud of you. I'm trying to say.

Jody:
Thanks, man.

Nate:
I'll tell you one thing that I love. I love when someone tells me that we turned them on to a certain band. They heard them on the show, they went and checked them out. I know our friend Hayley, she has told me that we turned around to The Ergs.

Nate:
Which kind of blows my mind because they were kind of a big deal.

Jody:
Yeah, they were.

Nate:
Most people when they do write and say they checked out a band that we've talked about, it's almost always the Windowsill.

Nate:
They're my favorite band. I love that.

Jody:
Yeah.

Nate:
I love the fact that I get to get people to listen to my favorite band.

Jody:
There you go.

Nate:
That's cool.

Grim Deeds:
You've had that effect on me. You guys played the Zoinks! one time and I knew who they were and stuff but I wasn't that familiar. I was like, damn, that's a great song. I went out and listened to some Zoinks! You play an Even In Blackouts song on a recent episode. I recognized it. I was like, wait a minute... is that? I didn't really know, so I went and looked it up and I was like, damn, I've got to go listen to that.

Grim Deeds:
Yeah, that's a real cool thing because people like us, I mean, we think we know our shit. There's always little nooks and crannies that are undiscovered and you are the guys who are perfect to either remind us about it or unveil like something that I haven't checked out yet.

Jody:
That's cool.

Grim Deeds:
Some new stuff. Hayley, I got to give a shout out to Hailey, because Hayley, you're talking about Haley Crusher, right?

Jody:
Yeah.

Nate:
Absolutely.

Nate:
She's super talented and a very unique voice, literally as a singer, but also just in terms of her songwriting and what she brings to the table I think is really awesome.

Jody:
Yeah, me too. She's great.

Grim Deeds:
I'm about to get barged in on, hold on one second. Okay. That was rare. I thought I was about to get bombarded by three year olds, but we're all good. Switching gears a little bit, I want to ask about, Hey Pizza Records because that just kind of appeared and then I made the connection. I was like, wow, Nate has a record label. Hey Pizza is something that you have as a sound bite on The Dummy Room. It seem like it all happened very quickly because once you started promoting it, you already had releases lined up and it's like, whoa, they're real label. They're really putting out records.

Grim Deeds:
Then, here's this band called the Laidbacks. I'm like, wait a minute, is Jody in the band? It never occurred to me partially because it's so good, but partially just because I don't know why, but I never really thought to look into who wrote the theme music for The Dummy Room. It's really good. It's a super catchy perfect theme song.

Jody:
Thanks man.

Grim Deeds:
Now, it's been answered. Now it's like, okay, the Laidbacks like Jody Havenot has musical talent of his own. It's obvious and it's a great record. My question is two parts, how did Hey Pizza form and what's up with the Laid Back?

Nate:
Okay. I had done the label thing years back. I had two previous labels. I always loved doing it. I just never had the time to really devote to it to make it worthwhile. Over the years though, I think I quit probably like, I don't know, it was probably six years ago or so, I stopped. I've thought about it a few times because I really like doing it. Then, when The Dummy Room started we had Rookie Rochelle on. One of the early, early episodes. He had mentioned that the new Rochelle has recorded Animal Boy.

Nate:
Of course, I bugged him after he was on about hearing it. He shared one song with us. Then, somehow, I talked him into sharing the rest with me. I think at that point, he sent some Young Rochelles some demos over. I think it kind of got the juices flowing a little bit to want to do it. Somehow, he kind of talked me into putting Animal Boy out. I really wanted to, but I didn't know if I wanted to jump back into it. Then, I think Jay from a Jagger Holly, he got me involved with the Windowsill Jagger Holly split 10 inch.

Jody:
Yeah.

Nate:
Once that happened, that sealed it for me. Because my last label before I quit, I was going to do a New Rochelles record and a Windowsill record and possibly a Spastic Hearts record.

Grim Deeds:
Nice.

Nate:
I picked up almost right where I left off a little bit. I always regretted not doing those records, so to come back and be able to make up for that was really special. Then, Jody's band, he'll get into that but the Laidbacks, it just seemed ... once I heard it, I'm like, that just seems obvious that I would put it out. It's good. Why not?

Grim Deeds:
Wow. What were the previous labels that you did?

Nate:
My first label was called 608 Kisses. My second one was a Hang Up Records.

Jody:
Nate has put out all kinds of great records, dude. He put out that Manges seven inch, which fucking rules.

Jody:
All kinds of shit. Who else did you do, Nate?

Nate:
The Intruders.

Jody:
Yeah. The Intruders.

Nate:
Yeah.

Jody:
You think Nate did that. That was one of the things when I first met them, I was like, holy shit, you're the dude from Hang Up and 608 Kisses? What?

Grim Deeds:
Hang Up is definitely one I'm familiar with. That's cool. I never even knew that. I bet a lot of listeners will be interested to hear that. Wow, that's great. Yeah, the New Rochelles, that album is really good. Rookie and Jay are both awesome guys. I think their respective bands are part of what really motivates me and inspires me to keep doing it too because they just put out such high quality stuff. They're also very prolific. Their quality control is a little bit higher than mine in certain ways. Yeah. What an ideal group of guys to work with if you're starting a new label too.

Grim Deeds:
You know that the product is going to be good and it's going to be fun. Jody, let's hear about your musical history because when I heard Laidbacks, I was like, god damn, it seemed to come out of nowhere. Then, it got me thinking, well, maybe he's the guy who also wrote and recorded The Dummy Room theme song, which is super catchy. It's just like, wow, everything fell into place. It's very classic sounding, very traditional. It doesn't sound really like any other band. That's very notable.

Grim Deeds:
It's like, wow, check it out. This is added to my list of things that I want to listen to and investigate. Tell us about it.

Jody:
You're much too kind, man. I don't know. I've played in bands. When I was younger, I played in a lot of bands. The same guy that plays drums, Noel, he and I were in ... he's been in almost every band I've ever been in since I was a kid. You know what I mean? We've played tons of shows. We even did a cover band and played like six nights a week in that circuit for a couple of years. We've done plenty of punk rock bands too.

Jody:
At the end of the day, I had a kid and I needed to just chill out and focus on family. I quit doing it for a long time. Then eventually, I just wanted to do it again and I have all these songs because I never quit writing songs the whole time. Then, the podcast came along and it fan the flames of my obsession with this shit. I just kind of wanted to do it again, so I just started doing it again. Plus, one of my best buddies has this great label. I got with Nolan, I said, "Dude, I got a batch of songs, let's record some shit." He came over.

Grim Deeds:
The Laidbacks is mostly your songs then?

Jody:
Yeah, I wrote all the songs in the Laidbacks. We did all those songs. We actually recorded about 18 and we just decided 10 was a good number because of the Teenage Bubblegums.

Grim Deeds:
Wow.

Jody:
We still have a bunch of other songs. I've written a bunch since that recording. It just so happen that Nate was doing a label and I have a new band and it just all kind of ... it just worked out by chance, really.

Grim Deeds:
The songwriting is very good.

Jody:
Thanks, man. I appreciate it.

Grim Deeds:
I realize it too, because I always feel like somebody with the creative ability, all they really need is the motivation. Then, if you have that, I think, it's imperative that you do it. It just adds so much value to the scene and to everybody's enjoyment and why not? It's always better to just go for it.

Jody:
Also that feeling, definitely.

Grim Deeds:
It seems like the stars aligned too for you with like Nate doing the label and you having ...

Jody:
It's all this strange synchronicities, you know what I mean? I'm pretty happy about it. It's fun. I haven't done a band in quite a while so I'm pretty excited.

Nate:
I want to put it out there that I feel a little bit responsible for the Laidbacks. I feel like I put pressure on them like every other week.

Jody:
Yeah. You're like ...

Nate:
Like, hey, where are these songs at? Get moving.

Jody:
Push me a little bit but I appreciate that you did.

Nate:
At the same time, I think the podcast and Jody sort of got me going again. Then, I got him going and it's sort of just this weird circle of life for us here.

Grim Deeds:
It's important. It's really important especially at our age to keep each other motivated. Don't you agree?

Nate:
Yeah, absolutely.

Grim Deeds:
It's so easy to let it slip and just months, years go by and you're like, man, something is missing in my life. What could it be? You guys are motivating me and I think it's awesome that you're motivating each other. I have to ask this question though. Jody, is the Laidbacks band name, does that any way relate to how laid back you are and the way you talk? Because you've got that chill voice and you're just like chilling.

Nate:
Yes.

Jody:
Actually, I've heard that before. People have said that it's perfect for me, but actually, Noel, came up with it. He just spit it out one day and he had this idea, he's like, "We should just have like a recliner on a t-shirt and the Laidbacks logo." I was like, that's kind of cool dude. Then, he kept selling it to me and so I just went with it.

Grim Deeds:
It works. It works. It's a good name. It's like the beginning of a new chapter.

Jody:
Yeah, it really is in a lot of ways because for those last ... when I got out of the scene, I didn't even go to shows for years. I just became Mr. Homebody, dad, you know what I'm saying? I wasn't hanging out with those guys. I became a hermit, family hermit. It's cool because Noel and I go back to the early '90s. We used to play in bands way back then. It's great to see that dude once a week at band practice. I got my poker night with Nate and now I have band practice once a week and a new record out there and everything's cool, man. It really is because of Nate though.

Grim Deeds:
I think it's awesome because both of you guys are building on past experiences and past successes to whatever extent. Now, it feels like you have this bigger opportunity in front of you because you have a bigger audience. You guys have honed your skills and it really shows.

Jody:
I appreciate you being so kind, man.

Nate:
Yeah.

Grim Deeds:
It's sincere. It's like I can get stoked when other people are stoked and we all love this type of music and we grew up with it. There's nostalgia plus it's still ... I think, people have said it before, like Jughead has commented on pop punk being this timeless form of music that is instantly relatable. I agree with that.

Jody:
I do too.

Grim Deeds:
I think it's important that we keep it going and pass it on to the next generation.

Jody:
Yeah, totally.

Grim Deeds:
This leads me to a question about our community. When I kind of entered the pop punk world, this was near the, I would say, near the end of the PPMB, Pop Punk Message Bored. I was totally unaware of its whole history and legacy and stuff. I didn't know anybody. When I came in, I was completely green and I quickly realized that it wasn't like they weren't a welcoming committee necessarily. I mean there were definitely some nice people. I got connected with some people in my ... like the Bay Area who were part of it, who were very nice. I'm still friends with to this day.

Grim Deeds:
There were a lot of people who were putting out some different vibes, some exclusive vibes and just some drama and just ganging up on people and talking shit. Whenever someone came in wanting to share, it was like this risk that you had to take. Are they going to shit all over me? I thought it was really lame.

Nate:
Yes.

Grim Deeds:
Plus, at that time they were kind of blurring the line between what was pop punk and what was like indie rock or something. A lot of those bands were really big on their table, I didn't relate to it. I didn't relate to the bands who veered too far from what I considered to be true pop punk, which is like stuff that's inspired by the Ramones and the Queers [inaudible 00:51:01] and Mr. T Experience. It almost felt like it was a sin to promote that type of sound. They're like, oh god, like one of those. We were put in this other category.

Grim Deeds:
You guys came around and it's like it was reaffirming to know like, yeah, there are people who really like the good stuff and the traditional pop punk. I always see The Dummy Room as I described it in my interview question is like the spiritual successor to the PPMB, but without the negative aspects as far as I can tell. I know that within the scene and just the way human nature is and people in communities, there's always going to be a little bit of drama and a little bit of lameness. As you guys are approaching episode 100, have there been any downsides or any like lame aspects to doing this that have made you question it or just made you think twice?

Nate:
Okay.

Jody:
For me, not at all dude. Not as far as the podcast goes, but dude, that group, I mean we only made that group so that people could interact with the podcast and we could post the episodes there and whatnot. There's definitely people in that group that probably never listened to the show, which is weird.

Nate:
It's definitely taken a life of its own. I know when you're talking about with the PPMB, completely get it. What we wanted to do was basically only have it about pop punk. You could post whatever you want to post, but we're not going to bash on if you post a Queers song, it's not going to become a bunch of hate on Joe.

Jody:
No, definitely not.

Nate:
We will delete it. We just want to make it about the stuff we like and the stuff other people like. I don't like everything that people post, but as long as it's relatable to the bubble and it's not hateful and people aren't just out to doggone people, that's what it's about.

Grim Deeds:
Yeah.

Jody:
We've only delete a couple things. One thing that I'll delete every fucking time and I don't care anything that's like Ben Weasel's incident and blah, blah, blah. It's instantly deleted, man. You know what I'm saying? Everybody knows nobody gives a fuck. Let it go. Forgive him already. You know what I mean? I always delete those and anything hateful obviously.

Jody:
What's pretty cool about it, it's just people like us. There's been this elitism. It's basically just been a lot of nice people that are into the cool shit. You know what I'm saying? So far so good, like no drama.

Grim Deeds:
It comes across. When I look at the Facebook group, it's obvious that you guys do maintain certain standards for making it relevant, relevant to the bubble, relevant to pop punk and people are sharing all kinds of cool stuff on there.

Nate:
Definitely.

Grim Deeds:
I can see that you've made that effort to keep it fun and keep it positive. I don't think people use that as a receptacle for ranting or talking shit or whatever. I don't even see it really as a ... you know how a lot of people will just seize on it as a way to promote themselves? I don't really see people doing that either.

Jody:
That's one thing I have seen in there lately. It gets a little spammy with certain bands and their posts every hour or so. If we can help a band somehow, I'm for it.

Nate:
That's when I post.

Jody:
Yeah.

Nate:
There's a whole etiquette to that. I think sometimes people just aren't hip to it. Maybe they're just excited.

Jody:
Yeah. Once a day, no problem. Five times, eight times a day, we can't ...

Nate:
Yeah.

Jody:
You know what I mean?

Nate:
Yeah.

Grim Deeds:
I think that's important to say in this interview is from my perspective, being an artist and you guys as artists and also promoting it as a community resource. You got to treat it like work in a way. You're not going to reply all to every email at work. That would be lame. It's like you got to have some common decency when you're interacting in the community and not shove it up people's ass.

Grim Deeds:
I try to be very mindful about that. I like to share things that I'm into and what my friends are doing, but I'm not going to just go on some kind of spamming campaigns. That's good that you guys are aware of it and kind of curb it without.

Jody:
We just kind of let them do whatever they want. Honestly, man. I mean it's not that important. It's just some internet group, no big deal really. I do think bands that do that risk burning themselves out.

Grim Deeds:
I can understand kind of the impulse to do it because we live in the digital world and ...

Jody:
You want to get the word out, but I don't know.

Grim Deeds:
Isn't it better when you have content, like actual content to show like, hey, we just recorded this album. Here are the new songs. You can listen to the songs. There it is. You don't have to overdo it. I feel like people have the instinct unfortunately to, remember to subscribe and like and share and share and share.

Jody:
It's definitely a thing in this world we live in. I've never been that type of person. If some people are and it's cool. You got to admire that they're willing to push themselves that hard, I guess. Whatever. It's not for me.

Grim Deeds:
I'll just end it by saying you guys do a good job with the group.

Jody:
Thanks, man.

Grim Deeds:
From a community standpoint. Let me ask you just a few more questions. One thing I'm always a bit concerned about is whether or not our style of pop punk is going to die out with our generation. Because most of the people who I interact with who are friends with me or are on The Dummy Room, it's like people in their, at the youngest late 20s and then at their oldest, like in their 40s or something. I just wonder like, is it going to get passed down? Are people still going to be picking up guitars and writing songs like this? What do you guys think?

Nate:
I don't know if it could ever completely die. It's basically because there's always going to be Ramones records and Weasel records and Queers records and there's Teenage Bottlerocket and Green Day, right?

Grim Deeds:
Yeah.

Nate:
Some cool fucking kid is always going to discover one of those records and it's always going to open that magical door that leads to all of this shit.

Jody:
Yeah. It's a great way to look at it. It's true. There is hope.

Nate:
Because we know our big episodes, we know what most people are going to listen to. It's the Weasel episodes, the Vapid, the Weasel, the Bottlerocket episodes that we've done, those are popular. Those records, they're going to be timeless. People are always going to find them and it's going to lead to the Grim Deeds and stuff like that.

Jody:
Totally.

Grim Deeds:
That's a great answer. I think I agree with you too. I think there is always hope and especially when things are archived now, it's just a matter of people discovering it. Once they do, you can just take and run with it. There's a lot of young talent out too that love those.

Nate:
I'll tell you what, I'm curious all the time when I hear a new band like [Oldie Haun 00:58:23] or Jerk from Las Vegas. I'm always curious, are these 40 year old dudes like us or are they younger? I love it when they're like 30 because they're certainly not super young, but it's like, it does feel like the younger people are picking up a little bit.

Grim Deeds:
Yeah.

Jody:
Yeah. I can tell you when I go to shows, there's always like at least maybe 15 kids in the front going ape shit that their parents must be punk rock and they've just grown up with it. I've seen some of these same kids at various shows over the years and they're starting to grow up. It's like, that's another hope. Give them a couple of years and we may have some new bands popping up out of these kids because they know every ... like if you go to like a Bottlerocket show per se or someone like that. These kids are in the front, they know every fucking word, every drum break, you know what I mean? They're just totally into it.

Jody:
They may be like 10 so you got to give them a couple years to get their shit together. It could definitely happen.

Grim Deeds:
Yeah, for sure. I think we do owe something to TBR for the way that they've kind of crossed over and allow a whole new audience to check out our scene and get inspired by it. Like the band that I just recently interviewed for my blog is called Color Killer. They're from Massachusetts. They're all like 10, 11 years old.

Jody:
They rip.

Grim Deeds:
Yeah.

Jody:
It's pretty cool.

Grim Deeds:
Shout out to those guys. I think man, give them a few years and you're going to see some awesome albums coming out. They're already like their chops and they're performing and their schedule that they keep, it's pretty crow.

Nate:
Yeah.

Jody:
Yeah.

Nate:
I check out every video when I see one get posted of those guys practicing.

Jody:
So do I.

Nate:
I've seen them. They're getting better. That drummer, it's finally like, holy shit, this kid's getting really good.

Grim Deeds:
Yup. Yup. He's getting those kick drum hits. Lincoln is about as tall as his guitar is long, but he's hitting the beats and just ...

Jody:
Yeah, it's really cool.

Nate:
Yeah. That's the band that gives me a little bit of, I don't know, hope, but I get excited when I ... because they are, they could be the future, you know?

Grim Deeds:
For sure. When I interviewed them I asked them like, what do your peers think of this? It's obvious that there is a bit of a disconnect but they're not faced by it. They're still going for it and they're still inspired. That's the punk spirit right there.

Nate:
That's like how it was when I was in high school. There was only like 10 kids that I knew that liked this shit in my town.

Jody:
Yeah. That's the way it'll always be. There'll always be a couple cool kids in every town. You know what I mean?

Nate:
Yeah.

Grim Deeds:
It's fun being our age talking to people who are younger about it and just seeing their perspective on it. Their experience coming in is a little bit different. I talk to, I don't know if you guys know Alex Retro from the band Atomic Treehouse.

Jody:
Yeah.

Grim Deeds:
They're a great band. Younger guys. He heard the Ramones in Tony Hawk's Pro Skater. It was his first time hearing the Ramones. I'm like, whoa, here you are writing great songs.

Jody:
There you go. That's all it takes, man, that little germ of the Ramones. The cool thing is like since punk, the term punk, you'd fucking Google it. Ramones are going to pop up somehow. Kids are going to know about them and that's all it will take.

Grim Deeds:
That's true. That's true. All right. I have asked you plenty of questions. I don't want to get too redundant, but I do want to know what's next for you guys. If there are any big reveals and projects that you're working on. Because it seems like 2019 has been quite a busy and fruitful year and a successful year for you, so I'm really interested to see what the next year is going to bring. What do you guys got going on?

Jody:
That's a hard one to answer because we never really know other than maybe two weeks out from what we're going to do.

Nate:
Yeah. As far as the podcast goes, like Jody said, we don't really plan out too far ahead. I know we don't have anything to reveal. You can expect just the every week, same thing. We're going to try to get, if you're listening every week, you know who we haven't had as far as the bigger guys go, we're going to try to get them soon.

Nate:
We'd like to space them out. We're not going to have Vapid, Weasel, Queer, Jughead week after week. We got to space them out to make it more interesting. Yeah. I'd love to have, it's no reveal, but I'd love to have PJ Soles on.

Jody:
Yeah.

Nate:
I tried so fucking hard all last year to get her on but it just didn't work.

Grim Deeds:
You should keep at it because that would be totally wow for sure.

Nate:
Yeah. I'll keep that.

Jody:
There are certainly some big names left for us to interview as far as that shit goes. We're just going to keep doing what we do. It's just what we do. It's just fun. Of course, we're going to try to talk to anyone that'll come talk to us. That's something that we dig, you know what I mean?

Grim Deeds:
That's really the key, I think, is just to keep doing it. The musicians who I frequently talk to, that's a lot of times the theme of my chats with them is like, just don't quit and keep doing it and make sure that you do. I'll make sure that I do. We kind of have a pact. I've pact with several musicians and songwriters where it's like ... because it can be discouraging sometimes or, I don't know, you get tired and might be lacking inspiration or life happens. I think it's awesome that you guys keep doing it. The weekly schedule, man ...

Nate:
It's tough.

Grim Deeds:
I don't know if it's a good one to end on, but one of my questions was like what really goes into this production to make it happen on a weekly basis and how time consuming and how difficult is it to do that?

Nate:
I'll just jump in on this, Jody.

Jody:
Yeah, go ahead.

Nate:
Basically, we record an episode typically on Wednesday nights.

Jody:
Yeah.

Nate:
Then, after we record, me and Jody talk for 15 to 20 minutes maybe about what we want to do next week. We throw ideas, whatever sticks, sticks. Jody goes on to edit that episode and I go to do the artwork. Whatever the plan is, if we're going to be doing a Weasel episode, we'll listen to Weasel or whatever topic. Sometimes, by the next Wednesday it sticks. Sometimes, Jody or Me will say, fuck that idea. Let's do this literally last minute. That's about it.

Jody:
Yeah.

Nate:
The whole editing process I know is way more time consuming. Yeah, that's all on Jody. I did a couple of them and I fucking hated it because it wasn't my bag.

Jody:
Yeah. I'm so used to doing it that I can kind of do it in my sleep. It is time consuming but at the same time I'm one of those people that I just have OCD. If someone like me coughs, I got to get rid of that. You know what I mean? I'm editing out sometimes less than a full second. Sometimes, I'm editing in the microseconds and just taking out little spaces and shit. I'm like a mad scientist at the editing phase. It's out of control, dude. I'm like ...

Grim Deeds:
That's who you want at the helm. You want that editing. You want Jody editing. You don't want someone doing it half ass.

Jody:
I'm not going to lie. Sometimes I do let a few things slip. Like if I'm running behind like in the week and I know I got to get it done by Thursday. Yeah. I usually have a good solid week to get it done so I'll do a little bit here, a little bit there.

Grim Deeds:
I bet you don't regret finishing the episode and putting it out even with ...

Jody:
No, it's great.

Grim Deeds:
... little hiccups and things. That's like you'd asked me before about my routine of putting out songs and it's kind of the same thing. It's like, yeah, I understand. Maybe this song isn't my best song, but there's something in it that I think is worthwhile and worth keeping. Maybe in a year, I'll look back and be like, I should've done it a little differently. You know what? Better luck next time.

Jody:
Exactly. Now we've built up a library sometimes, like if there's not another new podcast by someone else that I like that's out. I'll just listen to an old Dummy Room and see what we were talking about. Number one, I can never remember what we had said because I don't go back and listen to them once they're out until they're pretty old. That way they're fresh to me. Sometimes, Nate will say something fucking hilarious. I'll be laughing in person and on the episode. It's weird. It's a weird thing to listen back to.

Grim Deeds:
Yeah. You've got on to that point now. I've gone back and listened to some of the earlier episodes too and it's like, oh, man, they're always there. It's cool.

Nate:
I got to say the one thing that I really love about what we do is tonight this episode, we were supposed to do something completely different.

Jody:
Yeah.

Nate:
Then this whole idea with having you on came up and I just love the flexibility that we both have. We're just like, fuck it. We'll save that for later. We got all the time in the world to do this.

Jody:
Yeah.

Nate:
I don't know. Looking forward, I like booking the shows, I guess. I like trying to find the guests and stuff. Looking forward to what's coming out is like my thing. Like, hey, this year we got new records from ... we're going to have new records from Dan Vapid and Huntingtons.

Grim Deeds:
Yeah.

Nate:
It's fun to try to what can we do here to help promote those.

Jody:
Yeah.

Grim Deeds:
Yeah. That's great.

Nate:
We try to time a time a top 11 or something around the release date or an interview or something. It's fun.

Grim Deeds:
That is partially what the job of the podcast is nowadays. It's like you got to time it to benefit everybody involved and it's exciting that way.

Jody:
Yeah. It's like a radio show but free and without any kind of restrictions. That's great.

Grim Deeds:
Yeah. Yeah, man. Guys, I want to thank you for allowing me this pleasure to interview you.

Jody:
Hey, man, that was pretty fun, man. Appreciate you even wanting to ask us those kinds of questions because no one else has. You know what I mean? It's pretty cool.

Grim Deeds:
You know what I realized? Because I started doing the blog and I was only interviewing songwriters because I write songs so I figured okay, just stick to that. This nagging feeling was like, all these other members of our community are contributing things that are unique. Whether they're visual artists or good at doing interviews or doing a podcast, I knew at a certain point I had to branch out and you guys are just like a natural choice.

Jody:
That's cool, man. We appreciate that. That's really nice of you.

COLOR KILLER

COLOR KILLER

Being middle school students (I assume?), how are you received by your peers considering your passion is playing in a band and creating punk rock music? Are they supportive? Can they relate? Some of our friends are supportive and come to a lot of our shows.  Others don’t believe that we are in a band or don’t care. We don’t think any of them can really relate.  Our lives outside or school are a lot different than most kids our age.   Do you find that kids your own age appreciate the style of music you play? I'm a middle school teacher and occasionally have students who know Green Day and Fallout Boy or something like that, but it's very rare for students to know about punk rock unless their parents were punkers. Not very many kids our age listen to the kind of music that we play.  Most of them listen to mumble rap or some crap like that. That doesn’t stop them all from asking us for free merch though.   Do you guys research punk bands online very often? What has formed the basis of your musical education with regard to punk rock? In other words, how did you end up getting to know bands from the 90s? Most of us have been hearing old punk and hardcore since we were babies.  Most of what we listen to now comes from bands we have played with or bands that are similar to what we play.   The first band Lincoln ever saw was the Descendents when he was 6. Nate was probably even younger than that when he saw Bane for the first time.   Do you guys feel encouraged by the success you've had so far? What are some of your ultimate band goals? We feel super encouraged by the progress that we made.  We don’t think any of us thought that we would have accomplished everything we have when we first started out.  Our goals right now are to get another album recorded and hopefully play some bigger shows and visit more places that we have never been.   As a band, do you guys often get sick of each other or have conflicts that bum you out? How do you cope with the everyday challenges of being in a serious-minded band? Three of us live just a couple of houses apart, so we see each other all of the time.  We fight about stupid stuff all the time, but are friends again 5 minutes later. We don’t really think of ourselves as a serious-minded band.  We are just kids having fun. Do you guys collect music yourselves? In the digital age, do you relate to collecting vinyl and cds and physical formats in general? Our parents collect music, so we don’t have to.  We do buy a lot of music from bands that we play with, usually cd's.  Most everything else, we hear streaming online.   Being part of the first generation to have begun life with social media and the Internet already built into your life, what is your take on how kids use technology? Do you see it as a positive or negative thing over all? We don’t really know what life was like way back in the 1900’s without it.  For us, it’s definitely a positive thing. We can get new music and show announcements out quickly.  We can also see what else is going on with other bands that we follow. One of the negative things would be dealing with online bullies.   I was a middle school student in the early 90s, and we had our problems to deal with but it seems like being a kid has become much, much more complicated. Do you agree? What is the hardest part about being a kid in your opinion? We don’t like homework, but other than that, it’s pretty easy being kids for us.   I have a feeling that you guys enjoy significant family support and encouragement for your band activities, but can you confirm this? Have your families ever reacted in a negative or discouraging way towards your band or passion for music? All of our parents are very supportive.  It is very rare that one of our parents miss a show.  They buy all the gear we need and carry it to the shows because none of us can lift it ourselves.  It helps that almost all of them listen to music that is similar to what we play.   What are your current favorite bands, and how much do you guys follow the current "pop punk" scene? What does the term "pop punk" mean to you? We like a lot of different bands.  We follow the current scene quite a bit.  We follow most of the bands on social media so we always know when they have new music coming out or are touring.  For us Pop Punk is Punk Music with catchy melodies and lyrics.

DENNIS JAGARD

DENNIS JAGARD

I often begin by asking about musical origins. What's your earliest memory of loving music, and how did your love of music develop into the desire to create your own music?

I had a little record player in the ‘70s, and I remember playing Rawhide and Hell Bent for Leather (Frankie Laine cowboy songs) while “riding” my spring horse around age 4. As I got older I listened to music a lot, like while getting ready to school or on headphones late at night. I loved how a song could transport me instantly from silly (Dr. Demento songs, like “Weird” Al) to wistful, like the Beatles’ Yesterday or The Long and Winding Road, to happy disco party mode like ELO’s Mr. Blue Skies, or to a disciple of darkness listening to Black Sabbath’s War Pigs. As a teenager, eventually I couldn’t help but try my hand at writing lyrics and music. 

Scared Straight existed during the development of what many now call "skate punk". You are among the pioneers of that style, so I'm curious to know how the aesthetic of what would become your melodic punk songwriting style developed. Were their specific bands or songwriters you wanted to base your style on at first? Which albums or other factors made you decide to commit to melodic punk?

Scared Straight emerged from our love of bands like Minor Threat, 7 Seconds, Misfits, Fear, and many more. There wasn’t an intentional imitation of any one band, but we couldn’t help but be influenced by those around us. In the Nardcore (Oxnard Hardcore) scene, we appreciated bands like Aggression, Ill Repute, Stalag 13. And intentional or not, I think we started realizing that our favorite songs from all of the above seemed to have melodic vocals and storytelling elements... so we kept pushing along those lines, obviously not as successfully as The Offspring or Rancid, but we kind of went down a similar but less catchy path. 

As Ten Foot Pole began to gain recognition, you guys emerged as one among many greats on the Epitaph roster. That camp was distinct in the punk world, different aesthetically and perhaps philosophically to Lookout! and even Fat to some extent. How would you describe your experience being on Epitaph in the heyday of mid-90s punk?

I’m not sure how it differed than the other labels, but mostly Epitaph just let us do our thing, providing support with the music biz stuff like hiring a photographer and an artist, and having occasional parties and festivals. It wasn’t like there was any musical or art pressure or direction, other than the goal of being good. Maybe the aesthetic of the label had more to do with the decisions of which bands to sign rather than any kind of influence on the bands there. But still, Epitaph had The Red Aunts, and Total Chaos, and several other bands that didn’t fit that skatepunk aesthetic. Maybe, at the end of the day, Epitaph was just a petri dish and we happened to be in the right place at the right time, having someone with cash to pay for our recordings and marketing. 

As the melodic punk sound began to expand and saturate the scene, how did you feel about  there being so many bands who sought to emulate what you and other bands had established? Did you feel that the style began to decline as a result of over-saturation? By 2000 bands were moving on and a new sound of emo-punk and post-hardcore seemed to be taking over.

Certainly there was a decline, as nearly all our friends’ bands biggest records happened around 1994. We noticed there were a lot of bands that seemed similar, though I can’t say for sure about all the cause and effect. We kept doing our thing, writing songs and touring, though it became obvious some cities and countries had bigger scenes than others, and especially touring in the US became financially dismal. 

What interests me greatly about you is your decision to continue Ten Foot Pole after Scott left, and to take the great risk of replacing his very distinct and fan-adored vocal style with your own. How heavy of a decision was that?

In 1994 punk rock exploded, to the point where we could possibly be able to quit our day jobs and tour. But our singer Scott had a dream job of being a major league baseball pitcher. When he couldn’t/wouldn’t commit to touring a few weeks a year, we decided that we wanted to go forward without him (we had recently turned down a European tour with The Offspring, right when they were blowing up, and it broke our hearts). So we told Epitaph we were considering getting a new singer, and asked if they would commit to releasing music by a new band that Scott would sing in; Scott had been such a big part of developing TFP that we didn’t feel comfortable just kicking him out, but it seemed reasonable to say “You can start a new band and it will be on Epitaph, and we could even be your musicians, if you want.” So that happened, and he went on to start Pulley. We decided to audition different singers. And since I was already a songwriter, for quite a few of the lyrics on Rev, I decided I wanted to try to become a singer. So I practiced. And eventually I won the auditions, probably more for the fact that the guys knew I was relentless and reliable, rather than my actual vocal talent at the time. So we went on to tour as much as we could, hundreds and hundreds of shows in the US, Europe, Australia, Japan, Canada, Mexico, etc... and we made Unleashed, Insider, etc. It was a difficult transition, and we lost some fans along the way, and we gained some new ones. I understand we probably would be much bigger if we never changed. But at the end of the day, it wasn’t about how to get the most fans... we simply HAD to tour. I couldn’t keep the band together without having at least a few weeks of touring every year to look forward to. And also I really enjoy singing my songs. If I was just a guitar player, handing songs to a different singer, I doubt I would have kept doing this for 35 years. 

The aesthetic of Ten Foot Pole began to morph a bit by the time Insider came out, and afterwards Bad Mother Trucker. Did you have a goal of changing up the vibe at that time? From my perspective it seemed to be a step more towards mainstream access and away from the strictly underground skate punk world. Is that at all accurate?

We just tried to write good/interesting songs. I don’t think there was any intentional change up, and certainly not one towards being mainstream. I mean, we wrote all kinds of silly lyrics and crazy fast tunes, so it seemed clear we weren’t trying to be the next Simple Plan. 

Subliminal Messages has a unique sound that blends elements of classic skate/pop punk with other heavier and perhaps more modern styles for that time (2004). What was your songwriting process like during that era, and was it distinct from previous eras in terms of what you wanted to present?

I had been taking some songwriting classes, which really was just a way to kick my ass into writing... because there was the motivation to bring new material to the classes each week. One interesting thing about Sublimable Messages was that I sponsored each of the band members to join in a songwriting class, and they all really tried to write, which I loved. So there were some different voices being expressed there, like our bassist at the time, Mike Levy wrote Last Call for Russell’s Balls, and our drummer Kevin wrote With You by My Side (the lyrics, I wrote the music, if I recall) and several other tunes such as The Quest. I was under the impression that inviting the guys to write more would lead to a more stable band roster, as I thought guys would be more committed if they had ownership of the new music. But, sadly, the touring and finances were brutal in that time frame, and we had issues with Victory Records, which led to that album not being marketed much, so despite those efforts, that lineup disintegrated as the guys, including me, eventually, focused more on outside careers. 

There was a very long hiatus after Subliminal that left many of us to assume it was the band's swan song.

The main reason for the hiatus was that punk scenes, especially in the US, were brutal so touring, at least for us, was unsustainable. The other reason is that my career as a sound engineer took off, as I became the concert sound mixer for Prince. At that point, I had to stop booking TFP because I was always on call. After I left Prince, I went on long tour cycles with bands such as AFI, Jimmy Eat World and “Weird Al” Yankovic. So for several years I was too busy to do much of anything, though sometimes between tours I got a band back together and played shows in US, Europe and Australia. For example, after one Jimmy Eat World tour I did sound for in Europe, right afterwards TFP did a 21 show tour (in 22 days), before the next Jimmy Eat World tour started. And another summer we did a US/Canada run with Unwritten Law. Cyber-Tracks Records had done a good job for Implants, which I noticed as Dalley and Del Rio were also in TFP at times. So we signed up, and ended up making Setlist, which was meant to be a kind of “best of” collection which could be a reference for the new people who were ending up at shows asking us which of our old records to buy. Q: Then you came back, and at at time when the skate punk style seemed to be enjoying a resurgence of sorts. Bands like Satanic Surfers, No Fun At All, 88 Fingers Louie, and a slew of others came out of hibernation to record new albums that were met with much fanfare. Did that feeling and opportunity contribute to your desire to record another Ten Foot Pole album? How has the latest material been received, and does it match your hopes and expectations? The timing of our return didn’t have to do with a resurgence so much as having available time, though maybe the resurgence led to labels being willing to invest. But after Cyber-Tracks went on a bit of a hiatus, I decided to go forward with making Escalating Quickly on my own, trying to get Patrons to support us with Patreon subscriptions. Then we found Thousand Islands Records willing to handle making and distributing the physical product (vinyl and CDs), including handling worldwide efforts. Escalating Quickly is a bit different, I would say more musical, with a lot more guitar riffs, keyboard parts, and different quirky song parts. As I expected, our biggest fans love it, though some took a while to get past that it wasn’t all double time drums and skate punk. But also regular people seem to really like it, once they give it a listen, so it does well with people that check it out. The biggest challenge is getting it exposure so that people do check it out. 

You embarked on an acoustic tour semi-recently that was rather unexpected, though many punk songwriters have gone on to do acoustic sets and albums. Was that experience rewarding? How does the acoustic tour compare with the full-band tour, and which do you prefer?

I started doing acoustic practicing, then eventually performances, as I was traveling as a sound engineer and could carry a guitar with me. I found that I enjoy playing acoustic, with or without an audience, so it makes sense to keep doing it. I love the rock band, distorted guitar, experience too... but sometimes it’s nice to reduce the noise, strip away the bells and whistles, and just sing the songs in a quiet place. I like it so much, and some of our fans do too, that right now a full acoustic record is in development. I think it will be 1/3 old TFP songs, 1/3 recent TFP songs (like Scars from Setlist, and several from Escalating Quickly), and 1/3 brand new tunes. Since most TFP songs were written on acoustic guitar anyhow, it seems like the styles compliment each other, and keep it fresh. If a song sounds great on acoustic, it’s probably going to sound great with the full band too. 

You're a professional sound engineer who has worked with many legendary artists. I've read about a few incidents where Prince acknowledged you as a fellow musician ("It's punk, not funk!") and wonder if you had much opportunity to engage with these very successful artists you've worked with on the level of being colleagues and songwriters? Can you share any such experiences?

Many of my audio customers become aware of my alter-ego as a songwriter/musician, though I’m generally a bit embarrassed to push it too much. I’m probably a much better sound engineer than songwriter/singer—not many people can keep Prince happy—but I still love making music, especially as a break from the stress of my career. When I’m on tour, I usually sing/play during my dinner break, as a way to clear my mind from the stress of the day. And I often play shows on days off. The professional touring life sometimes seems like weeks go by and I get paychecks but it’s disconnected from “real” life, like the movie Click where Adam Sandler presses fastforward and misses his family’s experiences... that’s how touring is. But by playing my guitar every day, and playing little shows, it feels like I’m doing something for myself (besides earning money and becoming a better sound engineer). Besides the emotional benefits, there really are some brain enhancing effects, including energy and creativity, of singing and playing an instrument, so it is a little ritual that helps in a lot of ways. 

You are now based in Boise, Idaho. What prompted that move, and how does life there compare to Southern California? Do you find it to have a suitably active music scene? Have you met or interacted with many people who know you as the main force behind Ten Foot Pole?

My wife’s family is in Boise, and there’s cheap land. So it made sense to move here when I got into extreme touring schedules, so my family has support and so my pay goes a bit further than living in Los Angeles. Over the years I’ve met a few people, but not enough, as I’m a bit shy. One of my goals is to play more often in Boise, and build a following, if I can. 

Finally, how has your identity as a songwriter been challenged by the demands of fatherhood, 

career, and adulthood in general? Many bands have alluded to the strain of being an aging punk whose music may only be relevant to those of us lucky enough to have experienced it when it was at its peak popularity. Do you feel that our style of punk music is one that will live on? As a dad do you see any evidence that the youth of today will become interested in discovering the kind of punk rock we cherish?

Sometimes my responsibilities get in the way of specific work I planned to do, as with a family there are sometimes sudden priorities that need attention. But, really, being a songwriter for me is kind of a reflection of my experiences and thoughts. And being a Dad and husband has brought me to extremes of emotions and stresses that I presume has helped inspire and shape my songs. For me, being a songwriter is a way that I process, enjoy and heal from life—it is a rich part of my life, but not something I would rather have instead of a life. As far as the genre and popularity, there has been a lot of fun times, which have pushed me to over- invest in the band, leading to financial challenges, several times in my life. And that leads to ups and downs, when I feel like an idiot for investing so much time in something that often loses money. But then there were other times that I felt hopeful, proud and optimistic. Maybe that isn’t too different from many other small business ventures, but there’s something visceral about music, especially our underground fast music, that is hard to step away from for very long. 

I have no idea if new people will continue to enjoy the music that I enjoyed. I presume it will go on, just as I enjoyed different styles of music growing up. One cool thing about music is that it helps pass time when in boring situations, like stuck in traffic or while doing yardwork, and sometimes people want to hear something new--so I think there is always room for people to discover music they like, which will include checking out the past.

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