DENNIS JAGARD
I often begin by asking about musical origins. What's your earliest memory of loving music, and how did your love of music develop into the desire to create your own music?
I had a little record player in the ‘70s, and I remember playing Rawhide and Hell Bent for Leather (Frankie Laine cowboy songs) while “riding” my spring horse around age 4. As I got older I listened to music a lot, like while getting ready to school or on headphones late at night. I loved how a song could transport me instantly from silly (Dr. Demento songs, like “Weird” Al) to wistful, like the Beatles’ Yesterday or The Long and Winding Road, to happy disco party mode like ELO’s Mr. Blue Skies, or to a disciple of darkness listening to Black Sabbath’s War Pigs. As a teenager, eventually I couldn’t help but try my hand at writing lyrics and music.
Scared Straight existed during the development of what many now call "skate punk". You are among the pioneers of that style, so I'm curious to know how the aesthetic of what would become your melodic punk songwriting style developed. Were their specific bands or songwriters you wanted to base your style on at first? Which albums or other factors made you decide to commit to melodic punk?
Scared Straight emerged from our love of bands like Minor Threat, 7 Seconds, Misfits, Fear, and many more. There wasn’t an intentional imitation of any one band, but we couldn’t help but be influenced by those around us. In the Nardcore (Oxnard Hardcore) scene, we appreciated bands like Aggression, Ill Repute, Stalag 13. And intentional or not, I think we started realizing that our favorite songs from all of the above seemed to have melodic vocals and storytelling elements... so we kept pushing along those lines, obviously not as successfully as The Offspring or Rancid, but we kind of went down a similar but less catchy path.
As Ten Foot Pole began to gain recognition, you guys emerged as one among many greats on the Epitaph roster. That camp was distinct in the punk world, different aesthetically and perhaps philosophically to Lookout! and even Fat to some extent. How would you describe your experience being on Epitaph in the heyday of mid-90s punk?
I’m not sure how it differed than the other labels, but mostly Epitaph just let us do our thing, providing support with the music biz stuff like hiring a photographer and an artist, and having occasional parties and festivals. It wasn’t like there was any musical or art pressure or direction, other than the goal of being good. Maybe the aesthetic of the label had more to do with the decisions of which bands to sign rather than any kind of influence on the bands there. But still, Epitaph had The Red Aunts, and Total Chaos, and several other bands that didn’t fit that skatepunk aesthetic. Maybe, at the end of the day, Epitaph was just a petri dish and we happened to be in the right place at the right time, having someone with cash to pay for our recordings and marketing.
As the melodic punk sound began to expand and saturate the scene, how did you feel about there being so many bands who sought to emulate what you and other bands had established? Did you feel that the style began to decline as a result of over-saturation? By 2000 bands were moving on and a new sound of emo-punk and post-hardcore seemed to be taking over.
Certainly there was a decline, as nearly all our friends’ bands biggest records happened around 1994. We noticed there were a lot of bands that seemed similar, though I can’t say for sure about all the cause and effect. We kept doing our thing, writing songs and touring, though it became obvious some cities and countries had bigger scenes than others, and especially touring in the US became financially dismal.
What interests me greatly about you is your decision to continue Ten Foot Pole after Scott left, and to take the great risk of replacing his very distinct and fan-adored vocal style with your own. How heavy of a decision was that?
In 1994 punk rock exploded, to the point where we could possibly be able to quit our day jobs and tour. But our singer Scott had a dream job of being a major league baseball pitcher. When he couldn’t/wouldn’t commit to touring a few weeks a year, we decided that we wanted to go forward without him (we had recently turned down a European tour with The Offspring, right when they were blowing up, and it broke our hearts). So we told Epitaph we were considering getting a new singer, and asked if they would commit to releasing music by a new band that Scott would sing in; Scott had been such a big part of developing TFP that we didn’t feel comfortable just kicking him out, but it seemed reasonable to say “You can start a new band and it will be on Epitaph, and we could even be your musicians, if you want.” So that happened, and he went on to start Pulley. We decided to audition different singers. And since I was already a songwriter, for quite a few of the lyrics on Rev, I decided I wanted to try to become a singer. So I practiced. And eventually I won the auditions, probably more for the fact that the guys knew I was relentless and reliable, rather than my actual vocal talent at the time. So we went on to tour as much as we could, hundreds and hundreds of shows in the US, Europe, Australia, Japan, Canada, Mexico, etc... and we made Unleashed, Insider, etc. It was a difficult transition, and we lost some fans along the way, and we gained some new ones. I understand we probably would be much bigger if we never changed. But at the end of the day, it wasn’t about how to get the most fans... we simply HAD to tour. I couldn’t keep the band together without having at least a few weeks of touring every year to look forward to. And also I really enjoy singing my songs. If I was just a guitar player, handing songs to a different singer, I doubt I would have kept doing this for 35 years.
The aesthetic of Ten Foot Pole began to morph a bit by the time Insider came out, and afterwards Bad Mother Trucker. Did you have a goal of changing up the vibe at that time? From my perspective it seemed to be a step more towards mainstream access and away from the strictly underground skate punk world. Is that at all accurate?
We just tried to write good/interesting songs. I don’t think there was any intentional change up, and certainly not one towards being mainstream. I mean, we wrote all kinds of silly lyrics and crazy fast tunes, so it seemed clear we weren’t trying to be the next Simple Plan.
Subliminal Messages has a unique sound that blends elements of classic skate/pop punk with other heavier and perhaps more modern styles for that time (2004). What was your songwriting process like during that era, and was it distinct from previous eras in terms of what you wanted to present?
I had been taking some songwriting classes, which really was just a way to kick my ass into writing... because there was the motivation to bring new material to the classes each week. One interesting thing about Sublimable Messages was that I sponsored each of the band members to join in a songwriting class, and they all really tried to write, which I loved. So there were some different voices being expressed there, like our bassist at the time, Mike Levy wrote Last Call for Russell’s Balls, and our drummer Kevin wrote With You by My Side (the lyrics, I wrote the music, if I recall) and several other tunes such as The Quest. I was under the impression that inviting the guys to write more would lead to a more stable band roster, as I thought guys would be more committed if they had ownership of the new music. But, sadly, the touring and finances were brutal in that time frame, and we had issues with Victory Records, which led to that album not being marketed much, so despite those efforts, that lineup disintegrated as the guys, including me, eventually, focused more on outside careers.
There was a very long hiatus after Subliminal that left many of us to assume it was the band's swan song.
The main reason for the hiatus was that punk scenes, especially in the US, were brutal so touring, at least for us, was unsustainable. The other reason is that my career as a sound engineer took off, as I became the concert sound mixer for Prince. At that point, I had to stop booking TFP because I was always on call. After I left Prince, I went on long tour cycles with bands such as AFI, Jimmy Eat World and “Weird Al” Yankovic. So for several years I was too busy to do much of anything, though sometimes between tours I got a band back together and played shows in US, Europe and Australia. For example, after one Jimmy Eat World tour I did sound for in Europe, right afterwards TFP did a 21 show tour (in 22 days), before the next Jimmy Eat World tour started. And another summer we did a US/Canada run with Unwritten Law. Cyber-Tracks Records had done a good job for Implants, which I noticed as Dalley and Del Rio were also in TFP at times. So we signed up, and ended up making Setlist, which was meant to be a kind of “best of” collection which could be a reference for the new people who were ending up at shows asking us which of our old records to buy. Q: Then you came back, and at at time when the skate punk style seemed to be enjoying a resurgence of sorts. Bands like Satanic Surfers, No Fun At All, 88 Fingers Louie, and a slew of others came out of hibernation to record new albums that were met with much fanfare. Did that feeling and opportunity contribute to your desire to record another Ten Foot Pole album? How has the latest material been received, and does it match your hopes and expectations? The timing of our return didn’t have to do with a resurgence so much as having available time, though maybe the resurgence led to labels being willing to invest. But after Cyber-Tracks went on a bit of a hiatus, I decided to go forward with making Escalating Quickly on my own, trying to get Patrons to support us with Patreon subscriptions. Then we found Thousand Islands Records willing to handle making and distributing the physical product (vinyl and CDs), including handling worldwide efforts. Escalating Quickly is a bit different, I would say more musical, with a lot more guitar riffs, keyboard parts, and different quirky song parts. As I expected, our biggest fans love it, though some took a while to get past that it wasn’t all double time drums and skate punk. But also regular people seem to really like it, once they give it a listen, so it does well with people that check it out. The biggest challenge is getting it exposure so that people do check it out.
You embarked on an acoustic tour semi-recently that was rather unexpected, though many punk songwriters have gone on to do acoustic sets and albums. Was that experience rewarding? How does the acoustic tour compare with the full-band tour, and which do you prefer?
I started doing acoustic practicing, then eventually performances, as I was traveling as a sound engineer and could carry a guitar with me. I found that I enjoy playing acoustic, with or without an audience, so it makes sense to keep doing it. I love the rock band, distorted guitar, experience too... but sometimes it’s nice to reduce the noise, strip away the bells and whistles, and just sing the songs in a quiet place. I like it so much, and some of our fans do too, that right now a full acoustic record is in development. I think it will be 1/3 old TFP songs, 1/3 recent TFP songs (like Scars from Setlist, and several from Escalating Quickly), and 1/3 brand new tunes. Since most TFP songs were written on acoustic guitar anyhow, it seems like the styles compliment each other, and keep it fresh. If a song sounds great on acoustic, it’s probably going to sound great with the full band too.
You're a professional sound engineer who has worked with many legendary artists. I've read about a few incidents where Prince acknowledged you as a fellow musician ("It's punk, not funk!") and wonder if you had much opportunity to engage with these very successful artists you've worked with on the level of being colleagues and songwriters? Can you share any such experiences?
Many of my audio customers become aware of my alter-ego as a songwriter/musician, though I’m generally a bit embarrassed to push it too much. I’m probably a much better sound engineer than songwriter/singer—not many people can keep Prince happy—but I still love making music, especially as a break from the stress of my career. When I’m on tour, I usually sing/play during my dinner break, as a way to clear my mind from the stress of the day. And I often play shows on days off. The professional touring life sometimes seems like weeks go by and I get paychecks but it’s disconnected from “real” life, like the movie Click where Adam Sandler presses fastforward and misses his family’s experiences... that’s how touring is. But by playing my guitar every day, and playing little shows, it feels like I’m doing something for myself (besides earning money and becoming a better sound engineer). Besides the emotional benefits, there really are some brain enhancing effects, including energy and creativity, of singing and playing an instrument, so it is a little ritual that helps in a lot of ways.
You are now based in Boise, Idaho. What prompted that move, and how does life there compare to Southern California? Do you find it to have a suitably active music scene? Have you met or interacted with many people who know you as the main force behind Ten Foot Pole?
My wife’s family is in Boise, and there’s cheap land. So it made sense to move here when I got into extreme touring schedules, so my family has support and so my pay goes a bit further than living in Los Angeles. Over the years I’ve met a few people, but not enough, as I’m a bit shy. One of my goals is to play more often in Boise, and build a following, if I can.
Finally, how has your identity as a songwriter been challenged by the demands of fatherhood,
career, and adulthood in general? Many bands have alluded to the strain of being an aging punk whose music may only be relevant to those of us lucky enough to have experienced it when it was at its peak popularity. Do you feel that our style of punk music is one that will live on? As a dad do you see any evidence that the youth of today will become interested in discovering the kind of punk rock we cherish?
Sometimes my responsibilities get in the way of specific work I planned to do, as with a family there are sometimes sudden priorities that need attention. But, really, being a songwriter for me is kind of a reflection of my experiences and thoughts. And being a Dad and husband has brought me to extremes of emotions and stresses that I presume has helped inspire and shape my songs. For me, being a songwriter is a way that I process, enjoy and heal from life—it is a rich part of my life, but not something I would rather have instead of a life. As far as the genre and popularity, there has been a lot of fun times, which have pushed me to over- invest in the band, leading to financial challenges, several times in my life. And that leads to ups and downs, when I feel like an idiot for investing so much time in something that often loses money. But then there were other times that I felt hopeful, proud and optimistic. Maybe that isn’t too different from many other small business ventures, but there’s something visceral about music, especially our underground fast music, that is hard to step away from for very long.
