B-FACE
How were you first introduced to music and art, and did you gravitate more towards one compared to the other at first?
Music’s always been around me, so I guess that came first. Growing up the mainstream stuff was soft-rock and later bland MTV crap, and I hated nearly all of it. But many earlier bands appealed to me. Both the older stuff I would hear still being played on some radio stations, and records my family had. Stones, early Kinks, Hendrix, some CCR. I think I gravitated slightly more towards art though, since I could draw wherever and whenever. Music seemed that it only came from stereos and tv (it wasn’t until I was a few years older that I discovered that you could make those sounds yourself). But drawing could be done anywhere, anytime, and just required a pencil and a book to scribble in. Which is my earliest memory of drawing - in a book. Later in my teens music got more attention, but only slightly.
At what point did you begin creating your own art, and who or what were your main influences at the time?
I was pretty young when I drew in that book. 3 or 4? Tough to say. I remember around 6 or 7 I was drawing critters, spaceships and robots. Animated shows and illustrations in books were influential, but where I got the most inspiration was from old Mad Magazines. Two of my uncles had collected issues of Mad in the ’70’s and when they moved away from my grandparents, the magazines were all left behind. I examined the drawings for hours when visiting my grandparents. In some of those issues, there would be a reproduction of the early MAD comic books, originally put out by EC, and those really grabbed me. My grandfather also had a print that Charles Addams had given him. I’ll always remember that. I discovered Edward Gorey around then - that shit warped me for life. That man was a genius. No friends or siblings seemed to care about any of these things. Their loss, I know now, but at the time it sucked to have no one to share this stuff with.
One of those same uncles got me an Ed Roth shirt when he went to the drag races, and I would copy that drawing over and over. John Holmstrom’s drawings later influenced me too. There were some cartoons I did for the insert of Love Songs for the Retarded that was essentially the same idea that he had for Rocket to Russia. Little drawings to illustrate the songs. But in the 90’s vinyl wasn’t popular at all, so I don’t think they got around much. The record label didn’t use them in the cd version. Later, I used the same idea with the Mopes EP, and all those made it into the insert, along with some art by Dan Lumley.
Was bass your first instrument? How did you approach learning to play, and what were your initial goals as a musician?
6-string guitar was my first instrument. One of those uncles again - I was walking behind him once and he was playing Chuck Berry on an acoustic guitar while we went. That blew my mind! So, you’re telling me that those tunes on those records can just be made by you at any time? I wanted a guitar! And got a cheapie. I never got good though. As for bass, I picked that up for good when I joined the Queers. I had tried it a few times, but not for long. My main approach to learning it was playing along with the first Ramones record, because all Dee Dee’s parts were in one speaker, and guitar in the other, so you could play along to just Dee Dee if you wanted to. Not that that really matters - the guitar and bass are mostly playing the same thing. But it was fun, and I liked the simple, solid, relentless way he played. Of course that wasn’t the only band I played along with but they were important to me. Having Hugh O’Neill as a drummer can’t be overstated because he was so steady (well….behind the kit), so that helped me while I was learning.
I had no real musical goals when I got a guitar. Well, I wanted to be in a band, but that was it. And I saw that as a fact of life - I would be in a band, period. But no goals beyond that. I knew it would be a punk band, and there was (at the time) only so much you could do with that. It wasn’t seen as a career move in New Hampshire. There wasn’t a future in it for most people because punk was still music for mutants.
Were you interested in creating your own album covers from the outset, or did that happen more organically? Was your first published art from your work with The Queers?
Totally organically. I never set out to do have my artwork used for anything. I did a flyer for my first show with the Queers, and eventually more flyers and then a t-shirt, so I just fell into being the guy to draw stuff.
My first published art that I remember was in a newspaper when I was in junior high. Band-wise, though, it was probably for the Queers.
When did you begin to realize that you had a distinctive style as an artist? What are your instincts as an illustrator?
I never thought about having a style, but later I did start thinking about content, because it seemed all I was drawing for a while was punks in Converse and leather jackets. But that’s ok. I was often just drawing what someone had asked for.
If I do have my own style, that might come from not having any proper training. Sometimes if you’re taught how to do things a certain way, your work ends up looking a lot like other stuff. Same with music - so if you aren’t taught “correctly” then you might end up doing something of your own. However, much of how I draw is borrowed or influenced by others. Again, like music. So I kind of draw as best I can in an amateur hodgepodge fashion, using little things I picked up along the way. I’m positive that I could do more and do it faster if I was taught art beyond the usual high-school level. But I’m glad I wasn’t. Same with music…
As for instincts, that’s tough to say - I know that my instinct when playing bass is to never get too complicated, but with art it’s sometimes the opposite. It can be a simple drawing, and often is, but I might to go in again and add more details. At times I ignore my “less is more” instinct. It’s a different approach.
Did you receive support or positive feedback from family and friends when you first started out drawing? What gave you the confidence to continue? Did you receive similar encouragement for your music?
With art I always got positive feedback from my family. My mother was always supportive from the beginning. She got me basic art supplies as a kid, and nicer stuff like bristol board when I was a little older. I’ve only recently decided to start selling small prints, and when I showed some to my dad he told me it took me “goddamn fuckin’ long enough”, because he’s been urging me for years. Really, though, all my family and friends have been encouraging.
Confidence was easy to come by as a kid because I was always just drawing alone and for myself, and later when I did a few things for punk bands it was still at a time when the prevailing attitude was “let’s do this” combined with “fuck it”.
I was also encouraged by my family regarding music. They bought me a guitar in 8th grade. But no one (aside from the crazy uncle) was thrilled when I joined a local punk band called the Queers. There wasn’t a lot of squawking, though. They knew by then that there was no point in trying to talk me out of anything. It was mainly laughing and head-shaking from them.
Many fans (including yours truly) consider you, along with Hugh and Joe, to be the “classic” line-up of The Queers. Looking back on those years with the band, what did you consider your specific role to be, and do you feel like your creative contributions were honored - both as an artist and musician?
My role changed over time. For the first six months or so, I was just the new kid. Joe and Hugh were both punk rock veterans, 15 years older than me, and I didn’t really play bass yet. I had played just enough to fake my way through a tryout. And I was really, really fucking immature. Soon I was part of the band though, and when Hugh couldn’t make a couple trips or tours then I became the other guy who was always there with Joe, with a few different drummers. Hugh came back, and the three of us were off to the races. By then I was trusted enough to briefly run the band’s bank account, at least for as long as it existed, and manage funds on the road when we didn’t have someone doing it for us. Joe did in the early days, but eventually admitted he wasn’t the best guy for the job. I designed the shirts, generally did visual things with feeble stabs at administrative shit. Merch, lyric sheets, flyers, record art. Stuff I didn’t mind doing as much as those guys did (most I actually enjoyed). Some of my roles lasted throughout my time in the band, like designing most of the shirts, but some were fleeting, like doing the money and keeping financial records on tour. There was never any permanent delegation. It was all haphazard and chaotic. I think each tour and record was set up and done differently.
To the second part of your question, I think what I contributed to the band was appreciated more by people not in the band. Hugh was eventually extremely supportive, come to think of it, but at first he was tough to impress. And I was a young punk. Also later, when JJ Rassler got involved with the band again, he seemed to see some value in what I brought. So that was nice. I grew up (a bit) during my time in the band, but I can’t blame Joe for thinking, when I was 26, that I was still the asshole kid I was at 19. He just always saw me like that - I guess first impressions really are everything! We were a seriously dysfunctional group of fuck-ups. It’s a wonder we managed as long as we did.
Do you also consider yourself a songwriter? What has your experience been with that specific endeavor, and how have you approached it?
I am definitely not a songwriter. Anyone who can consistently write a good song on their own has something I don’t. I’ve written so few, and they’re dumb. I know, though, that I am good at collaborating or helping people write stuff. Adding something, urging someone on. Basically mentioning things that I hear in my head. Or I might make a suggestion that will then inspire the other person to build on it. If someone has a riff or chorus, then I come up with something, then in turn that might spur them. I love that shit. Going back to your previous question, I guess that was another way my role in the Queers evolved. After a while, those guys actually started listening to me! We worked together so well, and never disagreed on how a song should go. And I love coming up with new stuff, collectively. It’s great. Everyone on the same page, and adding to the tunes. That’s a band, right there.
You’ve remained active and prominent in the pop punk scene for decades while also remaining a fairly low profile. How do you see yourself in the context of the punk community? Do you often correspond with fans? Are there examples of fan feedback that stands out to you?
I actually didn’t do much after the Real Kids for 5 or 6 years. I might have done a couple gigs. I think there were a few Mopes things. But not a lot. Anyway, in the context of the punk community, I’m not entrenched in it. I don’t have an active band but in recent years I’ve done more stuff and I can’t believe how that’s snapped me back into it. I want to play more now. That Kepi and Shonen Knife gig I met you at was one of a few that really sparked me. John Jughead threw a couple parties that reminded me of how much fun this shit is, and there have been a bunch of cool gigs recently. So I’m gonna do more. I just did another show in California playing with Kepi and Roy McDonald, and now I have a few in Europe with Geoff Palmer. Then I’ll hunker down through the winter, keep busy here, and see what spring has in store.
I correspond with anyone - these days it’s easy to be reached. That’s one of the few good things about social media. Being able to keep in touch so quickly and easily.
I guess for examples of fan feedback, the best kind is when someone has felt inspired enough to actually make something on their own. Maybe a song, art, whatever. That’s the memorable stuff. But it’s all awesome.
As an artist, where do you feel your greatest strengths lie? What have been your biggest challenges, and how do you remain inspired and motivated to produce art?
Greatest strength? There isn’t one. I manage. Maybe that’s a strength?
Biggest challenge? I am horrible at just buckling down and getting stuff done. And working with computers is a bitch. I’m trying to get a website for my art up and running, and I am so utterly fucking useless with computers that I lose my mind. That’s a huge problem for me. I stare at the screen and I don’t even know what any of the terms mean. FTP? CPanel? No idea. Means nothing to me. I just want to show people this goddamn drawing of a frog.
Motivation - Looking at other art inspires and motivates me. It could be a band sticker on a phone pole, or a painting in a museum. Twenty years ago if I saw something fucking amazing, say Bernie Wrightson’s stuff for example, that shit would make me want to not bother drawing anymore. I could never get that good! But at some point I realized there’s a place for absolutely everything, and it’s not about who’s “better” at what. That’s important. Again, exactly like music. You do your own thing but get inspired by others. Now I seriously get stoked by looking at amazing drawings, paintings, prints. It just gets that part of the brain working.
Are there any particular achievements or successes you’ve experienced so far that you’d consider to be most significant or meaningful? What advice might you give to aspiring creatives who might struggle with the typical second-guessing and confidence issues that hold them back from achieving their goals?
Do you mean achievements with art? I guess there’s nothing that really stands out in my mind. But I like that some stuff has lasted. I recently heard a podcast with Dan Vapid and he mentioned one thing he was happy about regarding a few songs he wrote. They stood the test of time. I guess I feel the same with a few drawings I did. And if I see a tattoo of something I drew - that always awesome. It means a lot to me. Which is funny, because tattoo artists have their art put on people permanently all the time. But I don’t, so I think it’s neat.
Advice is tough to give when you think you’d be better off receiving it. I guess I’d say, regarding second-guessing and confidence issues, try not to be a perfectionist. If it’s made by a human, odds are it’s not going to be perfect. You can learn to appreciate that aspect on its own level. And there are no rules - that’s another thing to remember. You’re making it, so feel free to make it how you want it. Unless, of course, you’re doing it for someone else who’s specific about what they want, in which case I’m wrong so ignore me.
If you recall and are so inclined, please recount the story behind “DO NOT MOCK SATAN!”
If I remember correctly, we were chatting online, touching on topics such as the Dark Crystal, the Shadow over Innsmouth, and the like. Good stuff. Then you suddenly and repeatedly tried to steer the conversation to Jar Jar Binks but I was uninterested. Growing irate, you demanded that I submit artwork for your next project, “or else”. I asked what you had in mind but you were off babbling about Baphomet and Danzig and how I would be sorry. That made me wonder if a cartoon of Satan would suffice. You replied with “DO NOT MOCK SATAN!” So those words and a drawing were combined.
