COLOR KILLER

COLOR KILLER

Being middle school students (I assume?), how are you received by your peers considering your passion is playing in a band and creating punk rock music? Are they supportive? Can they relate? Some of our friends are supportive and come to a lot of our shows.  Others don’t believe that we are in a band or don’t care. We don’t think any of them can really relate.  Our lives outside or school are a lot different than most kids our age.   Do you find that kids your own age appreciate the style of music you play? I'm a middle school teacher and occasionally have students who know Green Day and Fallout Boy or something like that, but it's very rare for students to know about punk rock unless their parents were punkers. Not very many kids our age listen to the kind of music that we play.  Most of them listen to mumble rap or some crap like that. That doesn’t stop them all from asking us for free merch though.   Do you guys research punk bands online very often? What has formed the basis of your musical education with regard to punk rock? In other words, how did you end up getting to know bands from the 90s? Most of us have been hearing old punk and hardcore since we were babies.  Most of what we listen to now comes from bands we have played with or bands that are similar to what we play.   The first band Lincoln ever saw was the Descendents when he was 6. Nate was probably even younger than that when he saw Bane for the first time.   Do you guys feel encouraged by the success you've had so far? What are some of your ultimate band goals? We feel super encouraged by the progress that we made.  We don’t think any of us thought that we would have accomplished everything we have when we first started out.  Our goals right now are to get another album recorded and hopefully play some bigger shows and visit more places that we have never been.   As a band, do you guys often get sick of each other or have conflicts that bum you out? How do you cope with the everyday challenges of being in a serious-minded band? Three of us live just a couple of houses apart, so we see each other all of the time.  We fight about stupid stuff all the time, but are friends again 5 minutes later. We don’t really think of ourselves as a serious-minded band.  We are just kids having fun. Do you guys collect music yourselves? In the digital age, do you relate to collecting vinyl and cds and physical formats in general? Our parents collect music, so we don’t have to.  We do buy a lot of music from bands that we play with, usually cd's.  Most everything else, we hear streaming online.   Being part of the first generation to have begun life with social media and the Internet already built into your life, what is your take on how kids use technology? Do you see it as a positive or negative thing over all? We don’t really know what life was like way back in the 1900’s without it.  For us, it’s definitely a positive thing. We can get new music and show announcements out quickly.  We can also see what else is going on with other bands that we follow. One of the negative things would be dealing with online bullies.   I was a middle school student in the early 90s, and we had our problems to deal with but it seems like being a kid has become much, much more complicated. Do you agree? What is the hardest part about being a kid in your opinion? We don’t like homework, but other than that, it’s pretty easy being kids for us.   I have a feeling that you guys enjoy significant family support and encouragement for your band activities, but can you confirm this? Have your families ever reacted in a negative or discouraging way towards your band or passion for music? All of our parents are very supportive.  It is very rare that one of our parents miss a show.  They buy all the gear we need and carry it to the shows because none of us can lift it ourselves.  It helps that almost all of them listen to music that is similar to what we play.   What are your current favorite bands, and how much do you guys follow the current "pop punk" scene? What does the term "pop punk" mean to you? We like a lot of different bands.  We follow the current scene quite a bit.  We follow most of the bands on social media so we always know when they have new music coming out or are touring.  For us Pop Punk is Punk Music with catchy melodies and lyrics.

DENNIS JAGARD

DENNIS JAGARD

I often begin by asking about musical origins. What's your earliest memory of loving music, and how did your love of music develop into the desire to create your own music?

I had a little record player in the ‘70s, and I remember playing Rawhide and Hell Bent for Leather (Frankie Laine cowboy songs) while “riding” my spring horse around age 4. As I got older I listened to music a lot, like while getting ready to school or on headphones late at night. I loved how a song could transport me instantly from silly (Dr. Demento songs, like “Weird” Al) to wistful, like the Beatles’ Yesterday or The Long and Winding Road, to happy disco party mode like ELO’s Mr. Blue Skies, or to a disciple of darkness listening to Black Sabbath’s War Pigs. As a teenager, eventually I couldn’t help but try my hand at writing lyrics and music. 

Scared Straight existed during the development of what many now call "skate punk". You are among the pioneers of that style, so I'm curious to know how the aesthetic of what would become your melodic punk songwriting style developed. Were their specific bands or songwriters you wanted to base your style on at first? Which albums or other factors made you decide to commit to melodic punk?

Scared Straight emerged from our love of bands like Minor Threat, 7 Seconds, Misfits, Fear, and many more. There wasn’t an intentional imitation of any one band, but we couldn’t help but be influenced by those around us. In the Nardcore (Oxnard Hardcore) scene, we appreciated bands like Aggression, Ill Repute, Stalag 13. And intentional or not, I think we started realizing that our favorite songs from all of the above seemed to have melodic vocals and storytelling elements... so we kept pushing along those lines, obviously not as successfully as The Offspring or Rancid, but we kind of went down a similar but less catchy path. 

As Ten Foot Pole began to gain recognition, you guys emerged as one among many greats on the Epitaph roster. That camp was distinct in the punk world, different aesthetically and perhaps philosophically to Lookout! and even Fat to some extent. How would you describe your experience being on Epitaph in the heyday of mid-90s punk?

I’m not sure how it differed than the other labels, but mostly Epitaph just let us do our thing, providing support with the music biz stuff like hiring a photographer and an artist, and having occasional parties and festivals. It wasn’t like there was any musical or art pressure or direction, other than the goal of being good. Maybe the aesthetic of the label had more to do with the decisions of which bands to sign rather than any kind of influence on the bands there. But still, Epitaph had The Red Aunts, and Total Chaos, and several other bands that didn’t fit that skatepunk aesthetic. Maybe, at the end of the day, Epitaph was just a petri dish and we happened to be in the right place at the right time, having someone with cash to pay for our recordings and marketing. 

As the melodic punk sound began to expand and saturate the scene, how did you feel about  there being so many bands who sought to emulate what you and other bands had established? Did you feel that the style began to decline as a result of over-saturation? By 2000 bands were moving on and a new sound of emo-punk and post-hardcore seemed to be taking over.

Certainly there was a decline, as nearly all our friends’ bands biggest records happened around 1994. We noticed there were a lot of bands that seemed similar, though I can’t say for sure about all the cause and effect. We kept doing our thing, writing songs and touring, though it became obvious some cities and countries had bigger scenes than others, and especially touring in the US became financially dismal. 

What interests me greatly about you is your decision to continue Ten Foot Pole after Scott left, and to take the great risk of replacing his very distinct and fan-adored vocal style with your own. How heavy of a decision was that?

In 1994 punk rock exploded, to the point where we could possibly be able to quit our day jobs and tour. But our singer Scott had a dream job of being a major league baseball pitcher. When he couldn’t/wouldn’t commit to touring a few weeks a year, we decided that we wanted to go forward without him (we had recently turned down a European tour with The Offspring, right when they were blowing up, and it broke our hearts). So we told Epitaph we were considering getting a new singer, and asked if they would commit to releasing music by a new band that Scott would sing in; Scott had been such a big part of developing TFP that we didn’t feel comfortable just kicking him out, but it seemed reasonable to say “You can start a new band and it will be on Epitaph, and we could even be your musicians, if you want.” So that happened, and he went on to start Pulley. We decided to audition different singers. And since I was already a songwriter, for quite a few of the lyrics on Rev, I decided I wanted to try to become a singer. So I practiced. And eventually I won the auditions, probably more for the fact that the guys knew I was relentless and reliable, rather than my actual vocal talent at the time. So we went on to tour as much as we could, hundreds and hundreds of shows in the US, Europe, Australia, Japan, Canada, Mexico, etc... and we made Unleashed, Insider, etc. It was a difficult transition, and we lost some fans along the way, and we gained some new ones. I understand we probably would be much bigger if we never changed. But at the end of the day, it wasn’t about how to get the most fans... we simply HAD to tour. I couldn’t keep the band together without having at least a few weeks of touring every year to look forward to. And also I really enjoy singing my songs. If I was just a guitar player, handing songs to a different singer, I doubt I would have kept doing this for 35 years. 

The aesthetic of Ten Foot Pole began to morph a bit by the time Insider came out, and afterwards Bad Mother Trucker. Did you have a goal of changing up the vibe at that time? From my perspective it seemed to be a step more towards mainstream access and away from the strictly underground skate punk world. Is that at all accurate?

We just tried to write good/interesting songs. I don’t think there was any intentional change up, and certainly not one towards being mainstream. I mean, we wrote all kinds of silly lyrics and crazy fast tunes, so it seemed clear we weren’t trying to be the next Simple Plan. 

Subliminal Messages has a unique sound that blends elements of classic skate/pop punk with other heavier and perhaps more modern styles for that time (2004). What was your songwriting process like during that era, and was it distinct from previous eras in terms of what you wanted to present?

I had been taking some songwriting classes, which really was just a way to kick my ass into writing... because there was the motivation to bring new material to the classes each week. One interesting thing about Sublimable Messages was that I sponsored each of the band members to join in a songwriting class, and they all really tried to write, which I loved. So there were some different voices being expressed there, like our bassist at the time, Mike Levy wrote Last Call for Russell’s Balls, and our drummer Kevin wrote With You by My Side (the lyrics, I wrote the music, if I recall) and several other tunes such as The Quest. I was under the impression that inviting the guys to write more would lead to a more stable band roster, as I thought guys would be more committed if they had ownership of the new music. But, sadly, the touring and finances were brutal in that time frame, and we had issues with Victory Records, which led to that album not being marketed much, so despite those efforts, that lineup disintegrated as the guys, including me, eventually, focused more on outside careers. 

There was a very long hiatus after Subliminal that left many of us to assume it was the band's swan song.

The main reason for the hiatus was that punk scenes, especially in the US, were brutal so touring, at least for us, was unsustainable. The other reason is that my career as a sound engineer took off, as I became the concert sound mixer for Prince. At that point, I had to stop booking TFP because I was always on call. After I left Prince, I went on long tour cycles with bands such as AFI, Jimmy Eat World and “Weird Al” Yankovic. So for several years I was too busy to do much of anything, though sometimes between tours I got a band back together and played shows in US, Europe and Australia. For example, after one Jimmy Eat World tour I did sound for in Europe, right afterwards TFP did a 21 show tour (in 22 days), before the next Jimmy Eat World tour started. And another summer we did a US/Canada run with Unwritten Law. Cyber-Tracks Records had done a good job for Implants, which I noticed as Dalley and Del Rio were also in TFP at times. So we signed up, and ended up making Setlist, which was meant to be a kind of “best of” collection which could be a reference for the new people who were ending up at shows asking us which of our old records to buy. Q: Then you came back, and at at time when the skate punk style seemed to be enjoying a resurgence of sorts. Bands like Satanic Surfers, No Fun At All, 88 Fingers Louie, and a slew of others came out of hibernation to record new albums that were met with much fanfare. Did that feeling and opportunity contribute to your desire to record another Ten Foot Pole album? How has the latest material been received, and does it match your hopes and expectations? The timing of our return didn’t have to do with a resurgence so much as having available time, though maybe the resurgence led to labels being willing to invest. But after Cyber-Tracks went on a bit of a hiatus, I decided to go forward with making Escalating Quickly on my own, trying to get Patrons to support us with Patreon subscriptions. Then we found Thousand Islands Records willing to handle making and distributing the physical product (vinyl and CDs), including handling worldwide efforts. Escalating Quickly is a bit different, I would say more musical, with a lot more guitar riffs, keyboard parts, and different quirky song parts. As I expected, our biggest fans love it, though some took a while to get past that it wasn’t all double time drums and skate punk. But also regular people seem to really like it, once they give it a listen, so it does well with people that check it out. The biggest challenge is getting it exposure so that people do check it out. 

You embarked on an acoustic tour semi-recently that was rather unexpected, though many punk songwriters have gone on to do acoustic sets and albums. Was that experience rewarding? How does the acoustic tour compare with the full-band tour, and which do you prefer?

I started doing acoustic practicing, then eventually performances, as I was traveling as a sound engineer and could carry a guitar with me. I found that I enjoy playing acoustic, with or without an audience, so it makes sense to keep doing it. I love the rock band, distorted guitar, experience too... but sometimes it’s nice to reduce the noise, strip away the bells and whistles, and just sing the songs in a quiet place. I like it so much, and some of our fans do too, that right now a full acoustic record is in development. I think it will be 1/3 old TFP songs, 1/3 recent TFP songs (like Scars from Setlist, and several from Escalating Quickly), and 1/3 brand new tunes. Since most TFP songs were written on acoustic guitar anyhow, it seems like the styles compliment each other, and keep it fresh. If a song sounds great on acoustic, it’s probably going to sound great with the full band too. 

You're a professional sound engineer who has worked with many legendary artists. I've read about a few incidents where Prince acknowledged you as a fellow musician ("It's punk, not funk!") and wonder if you had much opportunity to engage with these very successful artists you've worked with on the level of being colleagues and songwriters? Can you share any such experiences?

Many of my audio customers become aware of my alter-ego as a songwriter/musician, though I’m generally a bit embarrassed to push it too much. I’m probably a much better sound engineer than songwriter/singer—not many people can keep Prince happy—but I still love making music, especially as a break from the stress of my career. When I’m on tour, I usually sing/play during my dinner break, as a way to clear my mind from the stress of the day. And I often play shows on days off. The professional touring life sometimes seems like weeks go by and I get paychecks but it’s disconnected from “real” life, like the movie Click where Adam Sandler presses fastforward and misses his family’s experiences... that’s how touring is. But by playing my guitar every day, and playing little shows, it feels like I’m doing something for myself (besides earning money and becoming a better sound engineer). Besides the emotional benefits, there really are some brain enhancing effects, including energy and creativity, of singing and playing an instrument, so it is a little ritual that helps in a lot of ways. 

You are now based in Boise, Idaho. What prompted that move, and how does life there compare to Southern California? Do you find it to have a suitably active music scene? Have you met or interacted with many people who know you as the main force behind Ten Foot Pole?

My wife’s family is in Boise, and there’s cheap land. So it made sense to move here when I got into extreme touring schedules, so my family has support and so my pay goes a bit further than living in Los Angeles. Over the years I’ve met a few people, but not enough, as I’m a bit shy. One of my goals is to play more often in Boise, and build a following, if I can. 

Finally, how has your identity as a songwriter been challenged by the demands of fatherhood, 

career, and adulthood in general? Many bands have alluded to the strain of being an aging punk whose music may only be relevant to those of us lucky enough to have experienced it when it was at its peak popularity. Do you feel that our style of punk music is one that will live on? As a dad do you see any evidence that the youth of today will become interested in discovering the kind of punk rock we cherish?

Sometimes my responsibilities get in the way of specific work I planned to do, as with a family there are sometimes sudden priorities that need attention. But, really, being a songwriter for me is kind of a reflection of my experiences and thoughts. And being a Dad and husband has brought me to extremes of emotions and stresses that I presume has helped inspire and shape my songs. For me, being a songwriter is a way that I process, enjoy and heal from life—it is a rich part of my life, but not something I would rather have instead of a life. As far as the genre and popularity, there has been a lot of fun times, which have pushed me to over- invest in the band, leading to financial challenges, several times in my life. And that leads to ups and downs, when I feel like an idiot for investing so much time in something that often loses money. But then there were other times that I felt hopeful, proud and optimistic. Maybe that isn’t too different from many other small business ventures, but there’s something visceral about music, especially our underground fast music, that is hard to step away from for very long. 

I have no idea if new people will continue to enjoy the music that I enjoyed. I presume it will go on, just as I enjoyed different styles of music growing up. One cool thing about music is that it helps pass time when in boring situations, like stuck in traffic or while doing yardwork, and sometimes people want to hear something new--so I think there is always room for people to discover music they like, which will include checking out the past.

Check out Ten Foot Pole here:
http://www.tenfootpole.com/
https://www.instagram.com/tenfootpoleband/?hl=en
https://www.facebook.com/tenfootpole/
https://www.patreon.com/TenFootPoleband

KIM WARNICK

photo by Jeff Colchamiro

KIM WARNICK

*I began recording mid-conversation. In the beginning we were discussing our shared love of Japan. I'm "Speaker 2" . -Deeds

Speaker 2:
There are few places in the world other than Japan where American bands get such royal treatment.

Kim:
Maybe in like South America. You see from all those videos, they (Ramones) were like the Beatles down there.

Speaker 2:
For sure. That level of enthusiasm is definitely like that in Japan too.

Kim:
Yeah, it's like nothing else. It just makes you feel ... It reminds you of why you do this. Because there's people out there that love it so much. Then they bought a test pressing of one of your records that even Kurt Bloch didn't have. He's like, "How do you have this?" Who knows because that's all they do. That's all they care about.

Speaker 2:
Oh yeah. The collecting phenomenon in Japan is like nothing else.

Kim:
I know there's documentary on that because I've watched it for sure.

Speaker 2:
Yeah. One thing that I felt was interesting and I brought it up to my friends that I know there is, the Japanese bands are excellent.

Kim:
They are.

Speaker 2:
And I feel like they're very humble and they look at the United States as the mecca of punk rock or something. But I'm like, you guys write awesome songs yourself and-

Kim:
And you live in Japan. I know that all sound stupid to say because of course they do. But I guess the grass will always be greener for anybody. And I get why the US is probably a pilgrimage for them to make for all the right reasons, to go to New York and LA and see these places that they've heard about all their life.

Speaker 2:
Of course.

Kim:
But for me it was like, fuck this country (the USA). I want to go there (Japan).

Speaker 2:
Exactly, yeah, yeah.

Kim:
I don't want to leave (Japan).

Speaker 2:
Yeah. Yeah. Culturally it's always been a place that I've been very fascinated by. I'm a teacher so I have a lot of students from Japan in the Bay Area.

Kim:
What do you teach?

Speaker 2:
I teach middle school, sixth grade, at a school that has sixth, seventh and eighth grades.

Kim:
Oh wow.

Speaker 2:
That's what I've been doing my whole ... I'm almost 40. I've been doing this about 12 years.

Kim:
That's so cool. That's really great. There was no middle school when I was going to ... So we went to junior high, which was seventh, eighth and ninth when I was in school.

Speaker 2:
Yeah.

Kim:
It's weird to me to think the way it works these days, but.

Speaker 2:
Yeah. They're always trying to make adjustments and upgrade it.

Kim:
Looking back I kind of feel like junior high was just a waste of time. You basically learn to read and write mostly in kindergarten through sixth and then junior high it's like, I was taking a typing class, a cooking class because that's what women did back then. It was just weird. And I'm like, well now I'm in high school. Couldn't I just be done with high school at age 16? I didn't like school at all.

Speaker 2:
Well, what I've realized in my position is the most important thing for me to do is just be an example of a cool adult who can listen and be encouraging and let them make their mistakes and make sure they know that it's not a big deal and that people still care about them. And that things are going to be all right.

Kim:
Yeah. And they can change it or take a different path around it. Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2:
Yeah. Because all the academics that we do, it's fine and I guess it's important on some level. But grades in middle school don't ruin your career later in life. So I don't put a lot of emphasis on the marks and the transcripts and all that stuff.

Kim:
Yeah. Where were you when I was going to school?

Speaker 2:
Well, I mean I fell into it kind of by chance but sixth grade was a big transition year for me growing up and it sucked and I didn't have a lot of adult role models back then that were positive. So it just felt like an area that I could contribute to in a good way.

Kim:
So have you lived in the Bay Area all your life? Did you grow up there?

Speaker 2:
Actually no. I've been here since 2006 and before that I lived on the east coast the whole time. I grew up in Virginia in this little small town. But I always listened to the music that was going on out here and when I arrived, it was like a different time and stuff. But I still felt really connected to all that Gilman Street and Bay Area Punk.

Kim:
We actually played Gilman Street.

Speaker 2:
Yeah.

Kim:
That's kind of a badge of honor really I think.

Speaker 2:
Oh for sure.

Kim:
I almost kind of remember that night too a long time ago.

Speaker 2:
That's cool.

Kim:
It was fun. I forget who we played with. Kurt might know. But it was fun.

Speaker 2:
That's awesome. Well, I was born in 1980 so a lot of the music I grew up with was kind of like post Fastbacks but definitely influenced by. And then when I discovered Fastbacks it's like, oh my God. It's a really interesting thing when you go to research music that you enjoy and then you find something that was happening before your own time. But it resonates so strongly with you, you know what I mean?

Kim:
Yeah.

Speaker 2:
Fastbacks were a band that felt just right. It's like, oh my God, like melodic, like kind of loose but still punky and straightforward.

Kim:
Yeah those, that's the main thing.

Speaker 2:
Yeah. Yeah. And you start to pay attention to things like, oh here are my favorite songwriters. What do they like? And they all like the Fastbacks so I was like, I'd better check out the Fastbacks. And I'm really glad I did. I mean, I've since become pretty well versed in all the music that all of you've created so it's been a great thing. The Internet has helped a lot too.

Kim:
Oh of course it has. I mean, that's how I would say people these days mostly find out about bands they like. It's so easy. But I mean, so that's interesting you bring that up because living pre-Internet as to now, there's the obvious good and bad things. I don't think there's any bad, but I will say that making a way as far as rock and roll and what bands you're going to end up seeing or falling in love with kind of haphazard a lot of times.

Speaker 2:
Oh yeah.

Kim:
It got easier I think when all the punk rock singles would come out of the UK. So you keep up with it and you kind of knew, well if the Buzzcocks record is good, the Stranglers record is probably going to be good. Or you just kind of follow that. But I guess you had to find that in the first place and that is what is different.

Speaker 2:
Yeah, for sure. And everybody kind of had a different access point. Like I grew up skateboarding so Thrasher magazine and stuff like that would open me up to a lot of music. And then you just would pay attention to the details, like the liner notes and the t-shirts people were wearing and just all that stuff.

Kim:
Oh, all the time. The liner notes, I mean I remember as a kid when I was 12 or 13 buying LPs. And I didn't know anything about how people record music. I didn't know anything. My brother came on 12 years later, so I had to guide him which was awesome. He ended up knowing a lot about different kinds of music.

Speaker 2:
That's cool.

Kim:
Yeah. But I remember just devouring liner notes. And I certainly didn't know, so and so's the producer and this is engineer. I could say that but what do they do? Do you know what I mean? I learned about ... So there was no Internet. The reason I learned anything about any of this stuff was magazines. And I even got their sarcasm, their tongue in cheek stuff as a kid, which is some pretty next level. And also Circus and Rock Scene. That's how I found out about stuff.

Speaker 2:
Wow. Yeah. Did you read a lot of interviews and stuff too because that's something that I always have found really-

Kim:
Always. All the time. I was obsessed. I had to know everything, read them and as soon as those records came out by whoever it was, I bought it.

Speaker 2:
Yeah. Well that's cool. I mean, my inspiration to do this songwriter's blog is just kind of paying homage to that era of magazines and reading about things that you're interested in and just extending additional lines of communication. Because to me, writing songs in the first place is a higher form of communication. And then you want people to know about it so you gotta bring it back down to the earthly level and have conversations about why you're doing it and what you're inspired by and all those things too. Which it's kind of like watching a movie with the DVD commentary or something, the behind the scenes. That stuff's always interested me.

Kim:
Yeah, me too.

Speaker 2:
Cool. Yeah, I mean as far as our conversation and stuff, I'm recording it now. My setup is, I have my district issued MacBook that I was at school just doing lesson plans when I called you and I'm recording our conversation in the garage band using the laptop microphone. So I'm going to make this down.

Kim:
Okay. It sounds really clear so I can hear you and you can hear me.

Speaker 2:
Awesome. Yeah. And I just figure let's just shoot the shit kind of and I have kind of like some things that I would like to ask you but in general I'm just stoked to have a conversation with you. And as another person who's very interested in songwriting and creating songs, I feel there's a certain community among us. If you look at the general population of people and creative people even, songwriting is kind of in its own little niche little world. So it's special.

Kim:
Yeah. Sometimes I think that ...  I haven't written a ton of songs. Those songs were all Kurt's. But I have written some of my own songs and I think sometimes if you are somebody who's maybe never written a song or doesn't write songs but you still love music so much, I feel like that's such, coming at it at a different place. Like when I hear a song that, for instance, From Your Girl by the Muffs.

Speaker 2:
Yeah.

Kim:
It's one of the most well written songs I can think of right now. Then like classics like 60's songs that are completely very well written. I think that when I hear that, I know that's like the gold standard. That's something I can aspire to and I'm not trying to be ... I'm just saying I don't think I could ever get to that. That's too good. It's just too amazing. But I mean, I think some people if you have written a song ever, you pay attention differently to music then to somebody who just loves music to death and for whatever reason, they haven't. Maybe just that's not their thing. But it's interesting. You hear things differently.

Speaker 2:
Oh I agree for sure. I think when you embark on the challenge of writing a song for the first time, if you're a person who's always loved music, it's kind of just like developing the tools and the skills to get it out of your head because it's probably all there.

Kim:
And it's fucking hard because if you're somebody that's always loved music, you obviously have songs and songwriters, bands that you look up to and that will make you fear it because you won't be able to write that kind of song. Or hopefully it's going to spur you to just try harder and know that songwriting, like anything, like writing, anything that you do repetitively is going to get better hopefully. Songwriting is weird because sometimes people maybe just don't write the best songs but it doesn't matter as long as you're trying to keep going in the forward direction. But I think it's frustrating. The times that I've written some songs, first of all I'll tell you something. When I have written any song, I have to run it through like a mental Fastbacks meter of like, am I ripping this off from that?

Kim:
Because it just seems so familiar but of course it wouldn't. But so far I don't think if ripped off any of our songs. I also have to run it through a Muff's meter too. Like is this lifted from something that I love that I'm not paying attention to?

Speaker 2:
Oh yeah, yeah. No I can fully relate to that. And I love Kim's songwriting as well. I think she's-

Kim:
She really gives.

Speaker 2:
Such a unique talent in so many ways. I mean, her performances, her aura, her personality was its own force to be reckoned with. But her skills as a composer, as a songwriter were kind of other worldly to me.

Kim:
I've been so enjoying all the tributes to her since she passed. It's just so sad but the one that is the most amazing, did you see the one Elvis Costello wrote?

Speaker 2:
Oh yeah. Yep. Incredible.

Kim:
Yeah. Jesus Christ, that's the highest praise you can get.

Speaker 2:
Yeah, so meaningful.

Kim:
And it's funny. I was talking the somebody about this. I know it's not true but for some reason I kind of felt like the Muff's were our little secret. Like we knew about this great band. I guess what I'm trying to say is like, just it's mind blowing to see, and I love seeing this, how huge their influence was.

Speaker 2:
Oh yeah.

Kim:
And it makes sense but I mean, again maybe because we knew them, we played some shows with them since the early days as it were, and maybe there's that part that you want to keep that band to yourself.

Speaker 2:
Yeah.

Kim:
It's that kind of thing.

Speaker 2:
Yeah, I can relate to that. I always felt that they were kind of destined to remain underrated in a sense because even fans of their songs, I felt maybe they weren't even aware of how good it really was or maybe couldn't articulate how good it really was. And they were a member of kind of like various communities in the rock world. They could be considered a pop punk band, they could be considered a rock and roll band and they-

Kim:
Or a garage rock band. There's a lot of boxes to check with those guys, for sure.

Speaker 2:
Yeah, for sure. You were saying as a songwriter, when you're inspired by someone great like Kim, there is like a level of frustration about well how can I ever reach that, especially because her process and the way that she put chords together and her melodies were so deceptive in the way that they were super catchy and seemed very simple and straightforward but there were all these nuances. And she did those jazz chords and things that were really cool.

Kim:
I'll tell you something. That's what Kurt Bloch does. I tell you, yes I've been in that basement forever. We just played this show, well we didn't just, we did it last year, our 30th anniversary.

Speaker 2:
Oh cool.

Kim:
So that was August 8th or something, 2018, I forget. Anyway. I just looked back on her name and we hadn't played since 2011 I think. Anyway, or 2013 I think. Anyway, I had to learn all those songs again and the point is, first of all I should have a leg up because I've been playing these songs most of my life. But when you haven't been practicing that stuff, it's like you're taking a crash course on going to the moon. It's so intense.

Kim:
And then how come these songs sound ... But I mean, I think any kind of bands like this that you could say Green Day too. Those songs, nobody would think. If you sit down and learn a Green Day song, there's a lot of chords that you wouldn't think are happening. More than you're thinking.

Speaker 2:
That's true. That's very true. Well Kurt's songwriting for me is kind of a mind bending experience to try to analyze the songs. I was listening to Fastback songs last night while I was washing dishes and stuff and if you follow the melody... it takes you to all these different places. It's like, take for example the Ramones style of songwriting, the way Dee Dee Ramone wrote songs. It was very impactful and very melodic but followed a fairly simple and similar format every time.

Kim:
Agree.

Speaker 2:
And it was kind of predictable in a way. But with Kurt's songwriting, you still had that impact of the melody. It was every bit as catchy, every bit as memorable, but the passages were much longer and the melodies, the way they would kind of cascade before they would resolve and come back around, it was almost like holy shit, I just go through the first verse but it felt like I was on this epic journey of the melody.

Kim:
But you know where that comes from? You know that that is because he loves prog rock. So I have a feeling that that's wide known. I mean, King Crimson, Robert Fripp is a big deal, and bands like that. He is really into that. So Budgie, stuff like that. So that's what he grew up with. I like some of that stuff but I think we all made on like '70s AM radio. That's kind of what we were listening to. And of course within that, Elton John. I think sometimes when I listen to our records, I realize that I know we're a weird kind of band in a way but I think it's just because there's just all those different influences. We weren't just influenced by the Adolescents Agent Orange. So we're not going to assimilate that. And we came from Earth, Wind & Fire displayed really, and Blue Oyster Cult. So if you put that all into a blender, you're going to get us.

Speaker 2:
I really appreciate that because when I was discovering pop punk and punk rock and everything, it was early '90s and by that time, a lot of bands that were forming seemed to have a narrower focus as far as their influence. It's like, oh I want to sound exactly like Bad Religion or Screeching Weasel or something like that. And they didn't draw from as many influences, at least in the little scene that I was paying attention to. And I always really, when I listen to the Muffs, when I listen to the Fastbacks and other bands that have a broader spectrum of influences, I always could feel that special quality. And it was still the kind of music that I wanted to hear with loud guitars and shorter, faster punkier songs. But there was that real mark of individuality because you were just doing what you wanted to do. It wasn't necessarily like, using a certain playbook for songwriting or a certain aesthetic. And I always thought that was really cool.

Kim:
Yeah. I think we aimed high all the time and sometimes, I don't think we missed the mark ever, but it was some songs were pretty ambitious. Kurt is a gifted guitar player-

Speaker 2:
Yeah for sure.

Kim:
... and Mike Musburger is an incredible drummer. And I think Lulu is a great guitar player, a great, great bass player. But I feel like my limitations, I see them all the time when I'm playing with that caliber of a person. I'm just trying to keep it together.

Speaker 2:
Yeah. Well I mean, that's another cool thing about the Fastbacks is it's just a unique blend of personalities and skills and everything.

Kim:
It's high school. We certainly are not like the Beach Boys but I don't even know if they all went to high school together. It doesn't really matter but that's how we've known each other for so long that it's like your siblings.

Speaker 2:
Yeah. There was always a very down to earth vibe about the Fastbacks too. Since we've been talking about Kim and the Muffs, I got a similar feeling from them as well where it's like, the way you presented yourselves was a very friendly and approachable kind of vibe. It was like, hey you could hang out with us. We're not assholes.

Kim:
We're not going to hurt you.

Speaker 2:
Yeah. And I appreciate that because there have been times throughout my dealings with the punk scene where there have been high school type politics and kind of rules about how you're supposed to look and sound. And those are all very lame aspects of human nature when it comes to art, like trying to stick within a limited aesthetic or approach.

Kim:
It's interesting you say that because I think that we certainly were very different when we started out. We were just kind of like ... I was the only one playing the instrument that I had played in a previous band. So Lulu was just learning how to play guitar standing up. I didn't even sing in this band for a while.

Speaker 2:
Wow.

Kim:
Yeah. So Kurt wasn't playing guitar, he was playing drums, which was not his instrument. It was just supposed to be a funny band that we could play covers and Beatles songs. That's what we started as. And then one day, he was in a band called the Cheaters before us, so he had written great songs and came to practice and he wrote a song. I still remember the name, called Real People. So we had our first real song. But I guess what am I trying to say? That we were just learning, like a lot of bands were at the time. It wasn't a lot of bands.

Kim:
There wasn't really a scene, much. But there were bands that were doing stuff. And as we kind of evolved and Kurt switched to guitar, we got lots of drummers. So in the early '80s, it was really kind of it seemed like there were bands doing stuff but it was hardcore, more like hard rock. And we weren't either of those. So we probably got roped into hardcore more because we were fast and loud and probably kind of hectic singing. But it was a weird time in Seattle.

Speaker 2:
Yeah. Yeah.

Kim:
There was no pop punk but I would imagine we kind of were that even before that term or that genre got born out.

Speaker 2:
Yeah, I would say you definitely predate that whole conception of what the pop punk aesthetic is or what it became.

Kim:
That term is just so weird. It's just songs with melody, but I don't know. Everything has to have a genre and that's great. AM radio was so crazy cool back then because they could play Iron Man next to Rocket Man and it was fine. Nobody blinked an eye. Like I like this song. I like that song more, that one has guitar but ...

Speaker 2:
I think for-

Kim:
You didn't question it at that because what else is there going to be? And then there was FM radio. You're like, oh wow. So that's where all those yes records are being played. I get it.

Speaker 2:
For people in my sort of little world of pop punk and they call it Ramonescore, like bands that are directly paying homage to Ramones.

Kim:
I've never heard that before. Thank you because I've never heard that before.

Speaker 2:
Yeah. Well I'm interested on your perspective because for me, my whole interpretation of it is the Ramones specifically, and bands that were directly inspired by them especially the bands that would later go on to do records with Lookout! and this other smaller label called Mutant Pop, they were learning to write songs based on Dee Dee Ramone's songwriting, based on a very specific formula. And it empowered people because maybe they didn't have the experience, maybe they didn't have the confidence to really jump right into writing songs and playing music. But if they had the sense that hey, maybe I could do this if I just kind of color within the lines and see what happens. I feel like a lot of the bands started that way and some branched out more than others.

Speaker 2:
I started that way. I started playing music when I was 25 but I'd been obsessed with music since I was a kid. I think it was important for me to have some pathway to feel successful. But once you have that, it can take on its own life.

Kim:
Well I think what happens is you can be inspired by anything, a painting or some dish you had at a restaurant. Anything could inspire you, especially with music and the Ramones for instance. Yeah. Talk about being inspired, I think that band changed all of our lives. I know I've seen them, we saw their first show in Seattle at a hotel here. They didn't know. I think I thought they were booking at Team Dance or something because that's just the way they could get them in there. And I don't think they have had a rock band there since because it was the loudest fucking thing I've ever heard. It was a ballroom. It was not very big. Maybe it was like maybe 250 there, maybe.

Kim:
But Leave Home had just come out and Johnny Ramone had his full bunch of stacks in a very small place. But I think what happened, so if that's something you see that just blows your mind, you might start writing kind of shorter songs. But that's what you're going to start going to. But at the end of the day, what you have been loving all this time will start coming out. So I guess maybe the Ramones could be like a blueprint of what you want to do but if you're an architect, any blueprint probably is going to get changed lots of times. So you could eventually be like, this song is great. I'm not trying to make it longer but this solo, I think this solo would be cool here. That's I think what happens when Kurt wrote those songs. Those songs, maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. He might've set out to write a super long song but sometimes that's just what was needed, that amount of time needed to take it there.

Speaker 2:
I like that analogy of the blueprint and it makes a lot of sense to me. I think what I've tried to promote in my communication with other musicians and people who love music is that you should color outside the lines once you feel at least somewhat comfortable with the blueprint and just do what you feel.

Kim:
Yeah. Take the static line away. You feel like you're jumping out of an airplane. Or once you have the confidence to really feel inspired and inspired enough to go for it, I guess that's what real art is. Just keep pushing your own boundaries and see where it takes you. Who knows. Maybe you'll alienate all your fans. I'm trying to think of an example but there's some out there.

Speaker 2:
Oh sure.

Kim:
Or you'll just be happier. You'll just be doing what you want to do and hopefully people that love your music in the first place will stick around, or they'll hate your new shit and only buy the first two records. I don't know.

Speaker 2:
Yeah. Well you're someone who, besides being in an awesome band and just being a cool person, the fact that you've continued passionately playing and recording and on come level continuing to participate and create this art has been inspiring to me. Because I think there's maybe in some people's heads a perception of like, okay there's a time in your life when you're going to be playing music and writing songs and stuff. And then you're going to move on to some other adult goal that's not related and maybe it's incompatible.

Speaker 2:
I've struggled with that because I'm father of a three year old and I have a pretty normal job and everything. So there's not a ton of free time but it's something that's always inside of me that I need to get out. I think it's important that other people who have that artistic nature feel that they can do it and feel that they should do it.

Kim:
Yeah. I haven't really been doing anything musically lately. I was taking to somebody the other day about this. I don't know why. I'm just in a, feel like kind of a musical, not dead end because that makes it sound way more dramatic than it is. Just kind of not ... I haven't even picked up my guitar for a while. So I don't know. It's kind of like just I didn't just move back to Seattle but I've been here a year come July 2018. So I don't know. I feel like I'm just getting my foot in. I also was sidelined for a while with a broken arm and I got a shoulder replacement. So I'm kind of just, yeah. And this surgery recovery can take up to six months to a year. So I'm not even there yet. So I'm just kind of trying to push myself. So I don't know. But that might have something to do with it.

Speaker 2:
Well I wondered too if having already accomplished so much and having achieved a lot musically and experienced a lot through being in the Fastbacks and forming your own projects and things, maybe there's a sense of you don't have to be on a particular schedule. You can just do it whenever you really feel the need to do it.

Kim:
Yeah. I agree. So I will write another song but maybe nobody will hear it. That's okay. For some reason, I'm not saying writing songs is easy because it isn't. But I feel like if you lock me into a room for three hours, I would come up with something. And maybe I should do that more because I feel like showing that creativity part off of me is not the best thing. But that's where I'm at right now. So who knows. It's fun talking about this stuff so I'm glad. Thank you for even considering me for this because songwriting is so interesting to me. And I like so many weird, different kinds of things and I have since I was a little kid. I wouldn't go outside and play because I didn't want to not have my records and my record player. I'm talking when I was like seven, six or seven.

Speaker 2:
Wow.

Kim:
So I've always been like that. My dad bought us a jukebox when I was 10. So at that point, it was all over. I stared going to giant rock shows when I was 12 and never did I think in a million years that I'd be playing music at all or playing on a stage like that, which we got to because we got to go tour with Pearl Jam. So I got the remember watching Elton John in 1972 thinking I'll never do that, but I got to.

Speaker 2:
Yeah. And that tour went all the way to the Middle East or something right?

Kim:
Istanbul, yeah.

Speaker 2:
Istanbul. Yeah.

Kim:
We had a night off so we got there, I think we flied there. So we were still on the regular run of the tour but we flew to that particular location and we got there the day before. Anyway, the record Pearl Jam, was Sony, had buses to take us all into the old town. And so we could go in there and we went and had amazing food. And then we were walking around. We went into this bar and it was so surreal. So we go into some bar. I'm trying to think what the name of the ... The band was called Cockroach because I think it's crazy that I remember that.

Kim:
I could be wrong but I think maybe Stone Gossard was with us, which the people in the band would've freaked out because they were doing Pearl Jam and Green Day covers. And we talked to them because I think we wanted to try to go up and play a song. But the reason we couldn't is because the bass player, he was a lefty bass player.

Speaker 2:
Oh yeah, yeah.

Kim:
And he's like, you can figure that out right? Like no. It's hard anyway let alone transferring it over that way. So anyway, that was really, really cool. They also had a last supper mural up on the wall at this place that had Bono, I think it was Jesus, Jimi Hendrix and I think Eddie was in there somewhere too. It was a crazy night.

Speaker 2:
Oh wow.

Kim:
It's a faraway place but it was amazing.

Speaker 2:
Wow. That sounds awesome.

Kim:
And we also played the World Trade Center in Istanbul, which was just like a one level building, huge building. And they were having a home show in half of the building. In the other half was the rock show, us and Pearl Jam. But the dressing rooms were all the way on the other side in the home show. So we had to walk out with our guitars on through kitchen displays and oven displays to get to the rock show. It was amazing.

Speaker 2:
Wow man.

Kim:
Yeah, what a trip. It was like being on acid or something.

Speaker 2:
Yeah. That's really cool. What is it like for you? I mean, you're talking to me. I'm going to be 40 but I'm from the generation that came later and discovered the Fastbacks later. Do you often get a chance to interact with people who were maybe removed from that era but are still really inspired by it?

Kim:
I guess so. I mean, I know that when we played, we played two shows. We played a show at a club to get our feet wet and see if we could even do it. And then we played at the Sub Pop the next day. But that was of course, it was an over 21 show. Not the Sub Pop one but the Sub Pop one, yeah people came up to me and were really pysched about the Fastbacks. And even more amazing, so before we played, I was just wondering around. It was in Alki Beach which I don't know if you're familiar with west Seattle. But it's right there. It's amazing.

Speaker 2:
Okay.

Kim:
I think they have four different stages all up and down the beach. It was an incredible event.

Speaker 2:
Wow.

Kim:
So before we played I was just wondering around with a friend and there was this school of rock stage. And we're talking to somebody and all of a sudden I hear our song, In the Summer, being played. I'm like, what? So I ran across this field and ran right to the front of the stage and here's these four kids playing our song. And it almost made me cry. It was just so cool. So what you're seeing, that was a classic thing. And then afterwards I got to take pictures with them which is really cute. So it was cool that the kids are hearing this stuff. I think sometimes a lot of what has to do is their parents probably have our records.

Speaker 2:
Sure.

Kim:
So if our one particular record looks good to that kid, some kind of eye candy, they might actually put it on. Like this looks weird, what's this like? Then they'll be like, this is gross I don't like it, or this is so cool, who are these girls that are singing? That's great.

Speaker 2:
For sure. Well, I'm in a position where I can show kids cool music and sometimes the students I have, have parents who have really cool tastes. I have a student this school year who just wore a Bad Brains t-shirt to class.

Kim:
Oh wow.

Speaker 2:
And I was like, wow you're wearing a Bad Brain's shirt. And she was like, "Yeah it's my mom's and I like this too." And I was just like, that's so cool. And I'm always really interested in how the youth of today are relating to the things that were so important to me growing up musically.

Kim:
Me too. I think sometimes I feel like, I don't know, I'm trying to think of a situation where a place I'm at where the music that's being played is so fucking boring and there's no guitar. And it probably depends on the places. I'm trying to think where I've been where it's like, you're not going to hear the Muffs.

Speaker 2:
Right, right.

Kim:
But I guess I just feel like unless kids are really searching for it, which I think they will find it for sure if they like that kind of music. But there's a lot of boring shit out there right now. It's just stuff that's not my thing. But I don't know.

Speaker 2:
I don't know if you've ever come across this, but on-

Kim:
I was going to say something. Because I was going to say it's like you are a teacher so Robert Pollard was a teacher as well.

Speaker 2:
Oh cool.

Kim:
I think he taught seventh grade. Or no, maybe fifth grade or something. He was a school teacher and Guided by Voices would go on tour in the summer. So he'd keep his real gig. But can you imagine first of all having him as your teacher is incredible. But he also one day as an art project, he had all his students design a single for Guided by Voices.

Speaker 2:
Wow.

Kim:
And he even picked the winner and that happened.

Speaker 2:
Oh my gosh.

Kim:
So there you go.

Speaker 2:
That's something else.

Kim:
I just set the bar a little higher for you, my friend.

Speaker 2:
Yeah. Well that's a thing to talk about because Grim Deeds is something that is very much me. But it's also something that I've kept separate from my school life and I still share music with the kids but I don't share that. I share just like, well I have an acoustic guitar in my classroom and we'll pick it up and play songs. And I'll write little tunes for them and stuff here and there, which they really like. They enjoy it but I've always been self conscious about sharing gnarly lyrics with them or things that I felt would feel like would make them just ...

Kim:
Well these days especially. You're so under a microscope. Especially that kind of job with children, I can imagine some kid telling the mom like, what I don't even know what but we can all imagine some crazy ones.

Speaker 2:
Oh yeah.

Kim:
Yeah. But that's something, sadly you've got to be careful with that. But you do for sure.

Speaker 2:
Yeah. Well there's ways of getting around it.

Kim:
Oh there are ways.

Speaker 2:
But you have to be careful. I think also in life as I'm sure you can relate, intentions have a lot to do with whether your outcome is positive or negative. And I think if you just are sincere in sharing music with kids, you're not going to get in trouble for that, even if you might steer them towards something that would be controversial or something like that.

Kim:
I would hope so but parents can be really weird, so.

Speaker 2:
Yeah.

Kim:
It's just, I'm glad you're doing that because that's good. Because that's how kids find out about good stuff.

Speaker 2:
Yeah for sure. I was going to mention this thing, this phenomenon that I've been interested in lately on YouTube. There's like a whole genre of videos and YouTubers who do what they call reaction videos. Where they react-

Kim:
Oh yeah, right.

Speaker 2:
... to listening to a song or seeing-

Kim:
Like Guns N' Roses for kids?

Speaker 2:
Yeah. So there's-

Kim:
Like they listen to Black Sabbath. They're like, that guy sounds crazy or something like that.

Speaker 2:
Yeah.

Kim:
I watch those.

Speaker 2:
There's all different styles and genres and things that people are reacting to. But what interests me is if you look at the different age group levels, some of them now are teenagers who are like young adults, like 18 year olds, 19 year olds and stuff, who are a bit more analytical, a bit more curious and want to educate themselves about the music.

Kim:
Oh I've only seen the little kid ones.

Speaker 2:
Yeah. That's what my first exposure was. But last night I was watching one where this 18 year old guy was listening to classic hip hop from the '90s, which is very different than the hip hop music of today.

Kim:
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2:
And his comments were very sincere and very thoughtful. But it also kind of confirms my bias towards that the golden era of hip hop because I felt like the lyrics were much deeper and the themes were more based in reality and life struggles and stuff. Whereas a lot of the hip hop music today seems to just kind of be like glorification of like a certain lifestyle and bragging shit.

Kim:
I don't like hip hop at all. So I'm just going to go and say that. It's so unrelatable to me, as a 60 year old white woman. Like no. I don't care. And here's another thing. I was thinking about this the other day. Where was I where I was listening to some shitty music? And I hate that ... I mean, Paul's Boutique is a great record. I love that record.

Speaker 2:
Yeah it's a really good one.

Kim:
Of course, I love all the samples on that record. It's just genius, completely.

Speaker 2:
For sure.

Kim:
But now let's think of this whatever, God knows, I don't even know who it would be. But they're just dropping in samples that like, fuck that. It was like say they're dropping in samples of like, Ooh Child by the Five Stairsteps. Like, I just want to go listen to that song. Don't put it with this filthy beast and this bullshit. I don't know. I just don't like it, so I don't-

Speaker 2:
Yeah. I mean, it's kind of a cheap-

Kim:
I guess some people might be hearing it and then somebody's going to listen to Ooh Child. Figure that out and love that song and go back and try it. I don't know. To me it just seems so boring. It's so slow and boring. I need four people, maybe five. I need guitars. I need to see them playing in a band. I don't want somebody on their fucking laptop.

Speaker 2:
Yeah.

Speaker 2:
Yeah. Well that's kind of the double edged sword of being able to do it yourself nowadays. Because I feel like the internet age has allowed for a lowering of standards but it's also enabled people to do a lot more on their own. So it's kind of good and bad in a way.

Kim:
I think in general, I think it's good. I think it's just demystifying everything about everything. But when I was a kid, I had no ... I listened to Petula Clark Downtown and I think I just couldn't understand how did this happen. I was so curious about A, who is she? I sure like her voice but who are these other people on the record, little 45? What do these do? They wrote this song? Like how does it even happen? How did she do this? And then how come I can't do that? That was the voted question that was coming along eventually, looking through my jukebox while like I wish I could do this but there's no way I could do this. How could I do this? I don't play instruments.

Speaker 2:
Well that general sentiment seems to be a barrier for a lot of people, including people who love music who might have the capacity to create something cool, but there's like a barrier.

Kim:
For me, being a girl back then and I eventually graduated to Foghat, Deeper, more and all that. But I took piano lessons when I was a kid but I quit because I hated it. Of course now I'm sad I quit, but anyway. So I would listen to ACDC and think, goddamn, or Queen. I took guitar lessons for a little bit but acoustic guitar and I'm like, I'll never be able to play like Richie Blackmore. That's not going to happen. So I guess I cant do it. But you know what happened? The Ramone's happened. [crosstalk 00:48:47] that I might be able to do. They actually saved my life as far as that goes.

Speaker 2:
Well check this out. Kind of along those lines and to bring it back to the YouTube generation, there are a lot of videos that are shared now of people doing covers and expertly executing all the best riffs and solos and things.

Kim:
Oh yeah, I've watched some of them. I just watched a Muff's one. This Italian guy did Sad Tomorrow and it was beautiful. And hearing a guy do that, and he's a really good singer but it's just acoustic. It was just a loving tribute.

Speaker 2:
Yeah. So there's that and then there's sometimes you'll see these proteges.

Kim:
Oh yeah like a three year old kid shredding or some shit, yeah.

Speaker 2:
Exactly. I really admire that of course and it's inspiring in its own way. The thing that I would like to see more of is original songs with that same spirit in mind. Like check out my original song that I wrote. You know what I mean? And inspire, because the songwriting skill is in a whole other category.

Kim:
Of course.

Speaker 2:
I think people tend to take for granted the songwriting. Like oh yeah it's a good song or whatever but check out this solo and look how fast he's picking.

Kim:
That's a really good point. So I wonder if that, maybe because it's become so easy to see and watch, that maybe kids today, back burning just the thought of how the thought itself. Maybe the thought itself is not, like you said, maybe that's not the main thing. Like maybe because I can play this solo, I can play Eruption just like Eddie Van Halen or whatever.

Speaker 2:
Well and the American Idol generation. American Idol wasn't based on songwriting. It was based on do you have a nice tone of voice, do you have the technical chops to pull off this song?

Kim:
Well nobody's ever watched an American Idol version of songwriting. I wish they would. I would.

Speaker 2:
Oh yeah.

Kim:
I mean, I think people just, they're lazy. All these great songs have been written. Now how am I going to make it better? I'm going to do a hip hop version of this or drop in my sample or whatever. Write your own song. Now I say that because I don't write many songs, but I do understand that to be a songwriter, it's a next level. And I don't know. That's why Kurt wrote all those songs.

Speaker 2:
Right, right. Well eventually I wanted to ask you about Evan Dando and-

Kim:
Oh yeah, I love him.

Speaker 2:
He's someone who I've admired for a very long time.

Kim:
His songwriting skills are there.

Speaker 2:
Yeah.



Speaker 2:
I was aware of the early Lemonheads stuff with the Ben Deily but there's a certain aesthetic that he created on like, It's a Shame about Ray and that era of kind of jangly but still poppy and punky songs that he did so effortlessly.

Kim:
I feel like it's really good songwriting and I think it's just a very comforting sound. And that low voice, it's like honey.

Speaker 2:
Yeah. I mean, for Cali Giraffes, how did you initiate a collaboration with him? Have you known each other for a while and it had just sort of?

Kim:
Oh. Well he was in town. Apparently I had met him before but I didn't remember. So that was funny to find out.

Speaker 2:
I imagine he's a Fastbacks fan too.

Kim:
Yeah. He liked the Fastbacks and I liked the Lemonheads but I wasn't even that familiar with them at the time. Anyway, he played a show in Seattle and my band mate Mikey went to see him and then brought him back to the bar I was working at in Seattle. So we kind of talked for a minute. They go off to his hotel and then after I closed the bar I went to the hotel too.

Speaker 2:
Nice.

Kim:
And we just sat around playing songs and he's like a human jukebox. Like play, Holidays in the Sun or play whatever song, he can play any song.

Speaker 2:
Wow.

Kim:
He's gifted. And then it's like, you rock all these covers. Play Confetti. I want to hear your songs. And he was so happy to do that.

Speaker 2:
It's a great song.

Kim:
We should start a band and you get drunk enough to say stupid shit like that. So yeah let's jam tomorrow. Like really? With you? So it did happen and we looked up a practice space and went and played. He was on drums by the way. So he played drums on, is it Lick?

Speaker 2:
Maybe Lick or Creator, one of those maybe.

Kim:
Yeah. Anyway, he was playing drums and he's really good. He sounds like Paul Cook, kind of like a Sex Pistols vibe. But he wrote a song, solo bass riff added. We ended up recording it the next day. Anyway, so that's how we knew each other. And so he stayed a couple extra days and I will say this. It was a lost weekend. If you hang out with Evan Dando, really quick you're going to probably not remember much.

Speaker 2:
Wow.

Kim:
But he's a sweetheart and I love him to death. Then he went back to New York and we formed the band that we were in.

Speaker 2:
Wow.

Kim:
He gifted us our name.

Speaker 2:
That's cool. The Cali Giraffes. He did a collaboration-

Kim:
One CD.

Speaker 2:
Okay.

Kim:
And in Spain was 350 and that was that. We played a few shows but so anyway.

Speaker 2:
Yeah. Well I think it's really cool. I think it's important to do those collaborations and things when you have that opportunity and it's something I've tried to train myself to look for those opportunities. Because when you're inspired by someone else or if you connect on that level and there's an option to do something together, why the hell not?

Kim:
Yeah. I mean, generally it's people's schedules, especially the older you get everybody's got their shit going on. And so if it can work, it seems like generally that kind of collaboration feels best when it's organic.

Speaker 2:
Oh sure.

Kim:
Better than okay so are you going to be out here on the 23rd? So where are you staying? And you just get all the questions and then finally some kind of the actual outcome. I think spontaneity is key. But you also have to go somewhere to write with somebody so it doesn't always turn out that way.

Speaker 2:
Well and the internet age, the way I've achieved that kind of spontaneity is if I want to collaborate with someone, it's just like here's the song idea or here's what I've written so far. Email me what you've got. Email me your vocal that you've recorded in garage band. Email me your whatever and we'll put it together very easily. And I've been able to work with people in different parts of the US and abroad that way. And it's really easy to do and kind of phenomenal that you can just, hey friend in Sweden, will you record the guitars and drums on this next one? Like yeah sure and email it back to me-

Kim:
That is amazing.

Speaker 2:
... and I'll sing over it and there you go. And how easy is it to fool a lot of people now with fake amp modeling and drums. A lot of my songs are fake drums, but you can play around with it and tweak it enough to where it sounds acceptably human.

Kim:
Right. Well these days for sure.

Speaker 2:
Well Kim, I probably shouldn't keep you for too much longer. What I want to tell you though is this has meant a lot to me and I really appreciate you giving me the opportunity to touch base. And hopefully we'll stay in touch because this has been a great conversation.

Kim:
Yeah. Thank you for even having me, for calling. I appreciate it.

Speaker 2:
I do plan to reach out to Kurt as well and pick his brain about songwriting and hopefully that will work out. But Ian's a great guy. I'm a fan of Sicko and I love the-

Kim:
So are we, of course.

Speaker 2:
So it's cool how through music you can build community like this and it's just always-

Kim:
And it's still happening. That's the thing is like, this is how it was literally pre internet but in different ways. But it's still going, just in a different format. That's cool.

Speaker 2:
Yeah. And like us having this conversation sometimes, unexpected friendships and things can develop. You just never know in life and I've always really valued that.

Kim:
You do. I'm still in touch with people that I went to grade school with, so.

Speaker 2:
Yeah it's a trip.

Kim:
I hope that never changes.

Speaker 2:
Well I'm going to take the best of our conversation, transcribe it, and create a blog post out of it. And then I will include a photo of you. If you have anything that you would like to use let me know. Otherwise I can probably just find something. And then I'll throw it up on the blog. It will be interview number 52.

Kim:
Oh, number 52, my lucky number.

Speaker 2:
Yeah. I did interview Kim by the way. I'll send you a link to that if you want.

Kim:
Please do.

Speaker 2:
It was a cool conversation. Yeah.

Kim:
How long ago was that?

Speaker 2:
It was about a year ago, maybe a little longer than a year ago. And it was just through email. But still I got some really cool thoughtful answers from her.

Kim:
She was probably pretty bad at that point.

Speaker 2:
Yeah, and I had no idea.

Kim:
Yeah. I actually knew. Ronnie had told me. So I knew that they wanted her on the demo and it's the most heartbreaking story I've heard in a long time.

Speaker 2:
When I've been reading about it, the thing that strikes me the most is how she maintained sense of humor and maintained herself.

Kim:
Oh everything, yeah. She never changed. She oversaw that whole last record. It's incredible. And then to like, "You're my hands now. You play the guitar on these songs." I mean, it's just a pretty incredible story.

Speaker 2:
It's heavy. It's heavy for sure. I mean, she was always kind of just unreal, the fact that she was who she was.

Kim:
To me, she was like a mix of Veronica and Betty from the Archie's. She was a cartoon person in a way that larger than life. I always felt like that.

Speaker 2:
Yeah, for sure. Oh, one thing I have to tell you before we end our conversation is I'm friends with Dr. Frank from the Mr. T Experience.

Kim:
Oh yeah I know him.

Speaker 2:
He's a big Fastbacks fan.

Kim:
We actually covered Book of Revelation.

Speaker 2:
Yeah.

Kim:
And you know what, Dr. Frank, you write another song, you just wrote a song like Kurt. It's like the hardest song in the world. That song is not easy. If you were to learn that song, that's like oh that reminds me of one of our songs. So it's a great song though. That's the thing. They wrote great songs.

Speaker 2:
For sure. For sure. And I'm definitely going to tell him that I got to call you and talk to you because I think he'll be stoked on that.

Kim:
I love him. I'll tell you a good Dr. Frank story. He told me this. I think it might have been on tour in Europe with Green Day.

Speaker 2:
Okay.

Kim:
And Green Day was playing, Dookie came out, maybe this is the timeline. And they were blowing up and they were the biggest thing, the new thing and all the craze. And so it was probably a good tour to be on. Now maybe I'm wrong and maybe they were touring on their own. So maybe it has nothing to do with Green Day. Maybe I'm just old and can't remember stuff. But at some point, he told a promoter, people in Europe want to get you a really good writer. When you're there you're going to get good things when you're a writer.

Kim:
I think Frank said, I want a set of encyclopedias. And they gave it to them. Please tell him that story because that story is dear to me about him to this day. And they gave him encyclopedias when they're on tour in Europe. Like how's he going to carry this shit around? It's so adorable I couldn't even believe it.

Speaker 2:
What a trip. That sounds like Frank though.

Kim:
I guess. No it totally does. Which is why it makes me love them even more.

Speaker 2:
Well that's a great one to end on, I think.

Kim:
I think so too.

Speaker 2:
Thank you so much. This has been a real pleasure and I intend to stay in touch if that's okay.

Kim:
That's totally great. I would love that.

Speaker 2:
Awesome, Kim. Well take care and we will be in touch. And I will give you the play by play on this blog as it develops and show you the result.

Kim:
Yeah. Send me the link. Well you did send me some links. I'm going to go listen to some stuff.

Speaker 2:
Awesome. Cool. And if you ever want to share a demo or just whatever you're working on, I'd always love to be in the know.

Kim:
Well you know what, funny you say that because I am going to send you something that I did a few years go. It's a Blondie cover called Sunday Girl. And I'll just go back to you on Facebook and send it that way.

Speaker 2:
Excellent. Excellent. And now that I can see you have a Facebook page and stuff, so I'll make sure we connect.

Kim:
No, the Facebook page isn't on.

Speaker 2:
Oh I see, I see.

Kim:
I did, but. So I'm going to send you this song and nothing came of it but it was fun to just play, singing my favorite song in the world.

Speaker 2:
Oh, well I can't wait to hear it.

Kim:
And I'll tell you this, it's really high vocals. Really high. Anyway, well it was good talking to you and we will talk at some other point.

Speaker 2:
Sounds great, Kim. Have a wonderful rest of your day.

Kim:
You too. Bye now.

Speaker 2:
Okay, bye.